Ep 125 Transcript: The Seven Exits Framework for Success With Ease with Dr. Rosenna Bakari

This transcript was auto-generated and may contain errors in spelling or inaccuracies in the spoken words.

Shauna Lynn Simon (01:50.222)

Hello and welcome to the Real Woman Real Business Podcast. I am your host, Shauna Lynn Simon. And today's guest is Dr. Rosenna Bakari an empowered psychologist, leadership consultant, and the founder and CEO of Seven Exits. With over 30 years of experience studying and teaching human behavior, she's known for translating deep psychological insight into practical strategies that help individuals and leaders to create real change without the burnout and without the constant push.

Now, Dr. Bakari is a Cornell University graduate with a PhD and ICF coaching certification. And her work spans higher education, corporate, and community settings, supporting leaders, organizations, and high-performing professionals through meaningful, sustainable growth. She's also the author of Seven Exits: Leave Behind Who What No Longer Serves You. Gee, that sounds like a

podcast episode I watched it. We're gonna have a great conversation here. So today we're gonna be talking about the often overlooked prerequisites of business success, like emotional maturity, self-awareness, and the internal capacity to hold what you're actually building. So Dr. Bakari, welcome to the show.

Dr. Rosenna Bakari (03:00.142)

Thank you, Shauna Lynn. I'm really excited to be here.

Shauna Lynn Simon (03:03.402)

I'm thrilled to have you here because I think this is something that's often overlooked. And our main audience here are what we love to affectionately refer to as our "Accidental CEOs". And these are women who followed more passion than plan. And so what ends up happening is we kind of jump in with both feet and we don't really realize what it is that we're building until we're full-fledged building it. We're in massive growth mode or whatever that looks like. And the challenge is that we forgot to build some foundations before we got started.

I know very few entrepreneurs who set out to, you know, launch their business and then before they launch it, they're like, hold on a second, let me make sure that I am mentally and emotionally prepared for this. As much as we might think that we're getting ourselves into this mindset, we're not really fully doing that necessarily. So I love the idea of having a conversation that kind of helps to set some of those prerequisites before we're doing more growth.

Now I want to go back to those something that was in your bio. You talk about being an empowerment psychologist. And so before we get too far into things, I'd love to just define for our audience what exactly is an empowerment psychologist?

Dr. Rosenna Bakari (04:10.712)

So that means that I support people really in closing a gap between success, for example, and ease. And so part of it comes from my own experience of being a client. So I've been on all sides. I've been a client, of course, I've been a practitioner, and I've been a professor training counselor. So I have a broad view. And what I found missing from all of the psychology pieces was empowerment.

And so psychology is very much historically focused on getting people well in the same way that the physician is focused on getting well. That means your heart beats like it's supposed to, and you're not having any adverse reactions to things. It does not mean the doctor is not going to help you run a marathon. That requires a different level of wellness. That's how I see empowerment. And so oftentimes this mental health.

stuff that we've been focusing on has really been an avoidance of mental illness, not mental health. And so empowerment says you deserve to be more than well. You deserve to really thrive in your life and see yourself present in your life, not just the absence of depression or the absence of shame or the absence of these other things, but really saying you get to create the narrative that you want to live in.

So that's empowerment psychology.

Shauna Lynn Simon (05:38.702)

I like that reframing. That's a much more positive frame as well. I think I think you kind of hit the nail on the head that mental health often focuses on more of like what are we avoiding rather than what are we actually seeking to achieve. And I think oftentimes that can be how we act in business as well. We're reacting to the things that are happening in the moment. And how do I avoid the negative thing that's coming from this as opposed to how do I plan to be prosperous and sustainable and really grow in a way that feels

natural and integral to what it is that I'm trying to build here. So you tend to work with a lot of really high performing women. I'm sure no one listening to this podcast is relating to this, right? You know, the high achievers, the high performers out there. What is the most common invisible struggle that you tend to find behind the success? Because I know I see a lot of it with clients that come to me where on paper they look great. Somebody comes onto their social media platform, like, man, girl, you're

Crushing it. And meanwhile, they're like, I'm falling apart on the inside. What are some of the most common invisible struggles that these women are having?

Dr. Rosenna Bakari (06:41.74)

Most commonly I think it's how we have defined success. And you don't really know it until you get there, because like you say, we're always looking at people. We're only looking at the external. And so we haven't yet developed our own definition for success. And so when we get there, we didn't know that it was gonna feel this way. But we don't have the words for it because, like you said, people keep giving us accolades.

One of the things I always say also is that the higher up the ladder you get, the less invitations you will have to heal into self-discovery or transformation. The more external accolades you get, the more people put them in front of you as what you're supposed to want. It's easy to get further and further away from yourself because you stop asking the big questions about what do I want.

Not what do people tell me what I get to become. Because what people tell you you get to become may be very different from what you actually want. What soothes your soul, what wakes you up in the morning with glee to get out of bed that's not a list full of must do's. And that's the life I want.

Shauna Lynn Simon (07:57.87)

I think that is so true. And you know, it's not to say that any of us are living an unauthentic life or putting up a facade necessarily, but there is a certain image that we're maintaining at all times. And most people don't get to really see what's going on on the inside. And we feel like, well, we're expected to just keep it all together. We're expected to do this. And we start to identify with that those expectations as, well, this is what I'm supposed to do.

Or I should be doing this. And I really hate the word should sometimes because you know I feel like we get these ideas of like this is what I'm supposed to be doing. And we lose sight of why we got into this work in the first place. Like we set out to help people, and that's that should still be part of our focus. But then we get so caught up in the latest marketing hack and the latest trending social media, viral video or

Whatever, you know, and it's we get so caught up in some of these things that we forget the core of what we were actually doing. And now it seems like we can't ask for help because you can't tell someone that you just had a less than impressive month, especially if your less than impressive month is more than what they would normally make in a year. Like everyone has different levels of things, right? And I know that if I were to tell someone like, I only made thirty thousand dollars this month.

And meanwhile, thirty thousand dollars is what they make in half a year or even in a full year, they're not exactly gonna have any sympathy for me. So how do I, you know, explain? Well, you don't understand though. Like I have a certain lifestyle, I have staff that needs to be paid, I have all these other expenses. I mean, like it's right, you know, more money, more problems, so to speak, sometimes and the pressures that come along with that. And so trying to find the resources, the support, and your tribe, for lack of a better word, of like the people who you can surround yourself with that you can feel comfortable actually opening up about. What ends up happening, I guess, with a lot of these women is.

They're growing faster than they can kind of keep up with, like you said, some of these internal struggles that they're having. What does that end up costing them in life? Like whether personally or professionally, like how does this end up showing up in consequences?

Dr. Rosenna Bakari (10:03.566)

I think it often ends up showing up in isolation, even when we're around people. So, for example, isolation from our families, either our children or our spouses or our friends, where we're with them, but we're not with them. Where we're never present with people, because our mind is always about how do I make up this gap in what I wanted to make? Or

Am I losing followers or am I gonna get the speaking engagement? And so we end up living in this performance world instead of this being world, this presence world that fills our hearts. Especially when, like you say, the people around you don't really understand. And even if they did, they don't necessarily appreciate what it is that we're going for or what the lack feels like in our lives. Like,

They want to be the lack that we feel. But they're not any longer. The lack we feel has come from a other a a different external source now. And that gets to be really, really tricky and can interfere in aspects of our lives that we no longer pay attention to. And it could include the way that we treat our bodies in terms of health and exhaustion and whether or not we rest and that sort of thing, to like I said, the absence of relationships.

to internal depression while we have all the external good.

Shauna Lynn Simon (11:31.278)

Yeah. And you mentioned earlier about how difficult it can be for women to kind of identify with the other people that are around them. And, you know, like you say, like this isolation, like that to me really tracks, I feel like you like another thing you mentioned earlier is that we don't necessarily have the words for what we're experiencing. So if you don't have the words for what you're experiencing, how do you go out and find what's missing? Like if you can't put

it into words, how you're feeling, what you're experiencing. And and correct me if I'm wrong on this one, but I would assume that so many women are probably like, Well, I should just be okay with this. This is just a part of success. This is just a part of growth, right? Like it's all fine. So what do you say to the woman who's like, I didn't know there was anything wrong here? Like I just assume like every woman's going through the same sort of thing and I just gotta deal with it. Or probably like to the opposite of that, they might be looking at other women and saying, Well, other women got it figured out. So I just need to keep plowing forward and I'll figure it out eventually too.

So how do you give them the way to be able to identify not only what it is that they're dealing with, but how to get the support that they need and how to move forward?

Dr. Rosenna Bakari (12:35.04)

So my basic framework for working with people, individuals and businesses and corporations is through the Seven Exits framework. That's what the book is on. And so after a long history of teaching, supporting, and then coming into building my own coaching practice because I saw this pattern happening with me as well as other people. And really, like this is something I took serious about figuring this out. Like we have to help people.

figure this out, particularly women who have so much responsibility to make things work in this world that we have to be a part of figuring this out. And so really the whole Seven Exits framework is built on that notion of my contribution to helping us figure this out. And so the idea is that while the world has been busy looking at accumulation, accumulation, accumulation, Seven Exits ask

What is it that you need to let go of? Sometimes less is more. And so it puts into a framework these seven barriers to you and happiness now. So these Seven Exits are framed in a way that recognizes that you can clearly have success and still need to be looking at what you need to get rid of. And so it's not just about.

being not sick. It's like, okay, you've had the success. And so a lot of the frameworks are based on it this idea that there's some limitation or some success that you're not having. Seven Exits is built on a framework that says, I know you're successful, but let's look at where your ego lies. Now you're living in an ego performance world, right? so hyper ego is one of the exits. Let's look at silence and secrecy, another of the exits.

What is it that you're holding on to that's taking up more space, even if it's just the secrecy of how unfulfilled I am in my success? Much less some of the darker secrets that we bring into adulthood that means that we can never be fully known. How does that impact how I'm showing up in spite of my success? What is the complacency that I'm carrying in spite of my success? What is the indoctrination that's

Dr. Rosenna Bakari (14:58.498)

keeping me here instead of saying I'm ready to let this go. So it looks at these seven specific areas to your question about how do I begin to unpack all of this and sort through and ask these questions. Why am I unhappy even though I am successful? And so that's really what the whole Seven Exits framework is built on. So

Shauna Lynn Simon (15:21.124)

I love that. I want to dig into that just a little bit more. We're gonna do that as soon as we take this short break.

Alright, welcome back to the Real Women Real Business Podcast where we're talking with Dr. Bakari about her Seven Exits framework. And so if I'm understanding correctly, then what you're saying is that the exits are about identifying what's actually holding you back and releasing those items. So when you're talking about an exit, it's about essentially releasing that barrier. Is that cor correct way of interpretating that?

Dr. Rosenna Bakari (16:42.132)

Yes, releasing that barrier to ease, recognizing that there's a difference between success and ease. What we assume that success is going to bring us ease, and often is quite the contrary. It brings us more burden, more stress.

Shauna Lynn Simon (16:59.658)

Yeah. And in fact, this is actually something that I speak with my clients about often is sometimes I'll have someone come to me and they'll say, Well, I'm boutique and I want to stay boutique. And you know what I hear when I hear someone saying that I'm boutique? What they're actually saying is, I don't want to get any bigger because I'm afraid of what that would look like. I think we assume that in order to grow, in order to achieve more success.

We're gonna have to double down on all the challenging things that we're doing, all the things that are taking our time. Like we've already taken time away from our family, from our friends, from our own social time, our vacations. And now the idea of trying to grow, we're like, so you want me to take pull more time out of my life? Like, how am I supposed to do that? And I think that you're hitting on a real thing. There's these things that are telling us that.

Or these triggers that kind of tell us, like, you've been successful and now you want to take it to the next level, but you don't have the capacity to take it to the next level. And I don't think that we fully recognize what it means to actually build a successful and sustainable business. And I think I'll admit, sustainable has become one of those buzzwords like authenticity that like I live by these words because they're true to me, but they've also kind of become this everyone's promoting sustainable. And it just became this word that

almost lost all of its meaning. So I like that you're also reframed in calling it ease instead. Cause we know what ease means. Like ease sounds good, but it also feels probably to a lot of these high performing women, feels near impossible. Like do you find that when women are coming to you that they feel like this is not actually achievable. Like I can't actually make my life easier.

Dr. Rosenna Bakari (18:37.784)

I do feel like that's how they feel. And so getting them to risk and say it's okay to feel that way. Now let's look at what would it look like if it is possible? Can you hold the possibility for a second? And then we can begin to open up space where they like, yeah, I can do that. You know, it's just like the idea what I call the early bird special, the wake up at five o'clock in the morning.

And to someone who's exhausted because they work twelve hours a day, waking up at five o'clock in the morning cannot possibly be the solution until it is. Right.

Shauna Lynn Simon (19:18.03)

It's so true. It's so true. Like I am definitely a member of the 5 a.m. club, more like the 4:15 club. But you know. Right. and honestly, if you would have known me, especially in my twenties, my goodness, I was the night owl. I would go to bed later than I now get up. Like much later. Like I was that person who stayed up all night.

And slept throughout the day. And I can remember calling my mother at like nine o'clock in the morning one time. And she was my gosh, I'm impressed you're up. I'm like, Mom, I haven't been to bed yet. Like, what are you talking about? Like that was and so if you would have told 20-something me that there was going to be a time in my life where I was going to be so excited to get up at 4:15 a.m. Like when my alarm goes off, like boom, I am out of bed. Like this is

Prime time for me. I'm so excited to get up. And so it is the solution for me. But I can also understand that when you're battling fatigue, like I'm someone who has recovered from adrenal fatigue, which was and I had chronic fatigue for several years, it was incredibly challenging to navigate. And that's what burnout looks like, unfortunately. Like if we work ourselves to the bone, that the idea of getting up early, taking care of ourselves, actually getting to enjoy some social time, like all of that just sounds delightful, but unachievable.

Ultimately. So your Seven Exits framework, you've got the book, but you know, if someone let's say they read the book and they're like, Okay, well, I still need more help with this, is this something that you work through with them? Like how long does it take to work through the Seven Exits framework? Is this a you can do this in a day kind of thing, or is this more of a twelve month thing or somewhere in between?

Dr. Rosenna Bakari (20:53.016)

Have a private membership where people work through it by themselves. I'm a coach, so of course I'm available to work through it with them. But I am committed to supporting people in finding their ease. And so whether they want to work with someone one-on-one may not be their thing, right? But and so the private membership allows them to work through all of the Seven Exits.

in their own space, in their own time, and it's guided. So as opposed to picking up the book, because what happens, you'll pick up the book and the performers that we are, we'll try to read through the book in two weeks and and hope that we'll be through all of the exits. Absolutely.

Shauna Lynn Simon (21:33.474)

Like especially I listen to all of my books on audiobooks. So I'm listening to like I'm not putting anything into action. I'm driving. I'm cooking dinner. I'm doing plenty of other things. And I love when the audiobook says, like, and pause here, do this. I'm like, yeah, I'm not doing that. But thanks anyway. So the reality is like it seems good in theory, but yeah, reading the book is consuming the knowledge. It's not actually taking action. Right.

Dr. Rosenna Bakari (21:55.278)

And that's why I love the private membership, because the private membership actually, of course you have the books, but it rips content to you week by week. So it forces you to work on things little by little. And if you don't have time, if this isn't in you this week or you're busy for whatever, come back to it when you want. So once you get the content, it stays, but it never overwhelms you with trying to get through a whole exit.

it it won't allow you to do that, right? Unless you're coming back to it. And so, but yet you get these weekly reminders that, hey, I'm taking care of me. This is something that I've committed to to take care of myself. And it's a one time bee. Like you don't keep doing it like it, that's it. Like you pay for it and you're in. And so right forever. Right. And so then maybe six months you decide

Shauna Lynn Simon (22:45.646)

Sounds great.

Dr. Rosenna Bakari (22:53.416)

I want more, I want group engagement, or I want one on one, then it can grow into those tiers. But I really wanted to build a private space for people who are ready to get serious about their own transformation, but still need space and time to figure out what it looks like. So

Shauna Lynn Simon (23:15.458)

Can you give us an example of, you know, what it looked like for someone to go through this membership or even just working with you? And kind of like what they were like when they came to you and what were some of the things that they identified with? Obviously, like we'll maintain confidentiality. Don't don't need you to share anyone's names or anything, but I'd love to kind of understand a little bit better about some of the sort of the aha's that people had going through this program. So

Dr. Rosenna Bakari (23:37.022)

One of the aha's I think the biggest aha people have is that I'm talking about successful people. And usually when you read people, when people go to get help, people remind them how unsuccessful they've been. This is why you haven't been successful. Right. So one, I think it's the framework of saying, I see your success. I know you're successful. Now let's talk about why your life doesn't experience the ease that you want it to.

So I think that's the first aha. It doesn't require people to hold on to some sense of deficit, right? That there's something they haven't achieved. And so then each exit I think surprises people in the clarity that it gives them, the vocabulary, the understanding. The feeling that I get a lot of times is that I didn't think anyone knew and I didn't think there were words for this.

When I was writing this, I had a few friends, of course, read through it. And I stopped after like the second or third friend, I stopped asking my friends to read it because they kept saying, like, why are you writing about me? And I'm like, I promise, I promise, I promise, I am not re writing about you. I am not trying to reveal these are not based on our conversations together, right? But I think the feeling that that people get is that it's why are you writing about me?

And so I think people don't get how universal many of these experiences are. And that's why we don't talk about it. And that's why we don't process through it because somehow we think that we are the only ones trying to not carry this burden. And so when someone puts it in words for you and asks you to look at hyper ego and list these ways that you're likely responding to the world.

that create defenses instead of connection, then it's like, you st if things start to click. And so the excess build on one, it may be an exit that really burdened you more, but if you try to take just one exit and work on it, it's like trying to spot reduction in weight. Like it doesn't you you can do it a teeny bit, but it doesn't work that way. You think it's only your arms that's flabby until you go to the gym and you realize you're

Shauna Lynn Simon (25:55.534)

Everything's bouncing around, yeah.

Dr. Rosenna Bakari (25:59.258)

And so that so so that's kinda how it is. So people begin to think more clearly when they have expressions and words like, and so the program will ask you, because it's experiential, like, what happens if you watch yourself? Because people say, Well, pay attention, self awareness, but they never tell you what you're supposed to be aware of. Seven Exits does. So it says, Okay, these are seven defenses.

I want you to watch them every week and see what shows up for you. How are you showing up in those spaces? Are you getting what you want? And what are you doing when you're not getting what you want? So it tells you specific things to look for so that you can slowly turn from external to internal. Because what happens as we're processing through this and the feelings start to be darker instead of happier, start to be heavier instead of lighter.

We start turning ourselves into victims. And that's when we begin to go down the rabbit hole. We assume that we're here because someone had expectations or there's some injustice in the world, and we start to lose our sense of empowerment. So the idea of Seven Exits is to get people to start looking internal so that you no longer look at any of your positions from a position of victimization. Now if you work

80 hours a week, there is nothing wrong with that at all. As long as you are willing to take responsibility for your choice, not for the demand that's placed on you, but for your choice. So even so now, whatever sacrifices that you make, whatever choices that come out of you for whatever you want are okay, but you must take ownership for.

Shauna Lynn Simon (27:51.49)

And I think that's so key because it is so true. I mean, anyone who's ever been through any sort of new product or service, launch, new campaign, writing a book, anything like that, you're gonna push some boundaries that you normally have set to get those things done. And sometimes that's a choice. Like I choose, I take most weekends off work, but there are weekends where I choose to work on certain things that really excite me, that energize me, that I know I need uninterrupted time. And it's harder to find that uninterrupted time sometimes during the week. And

Not only that, but in during the week, I'm in this kind of work mode that I don't let the creative juices flow as much as they're able to on the weekend. So I give myself permission for that. But it is to your point, I'm never resentful of all I have to work this weekend. Cause it kind of goes back to what I was saying earlier, but I don't like the what should you be doing? What's expected? It's, you know, I don't have to work. Ultimately, this is my business. I get to do whatever the heck I please. But

Sometimes the demand is so high that you're feeling like you're working 80 hours in the week and you are feeling resentful. Whereas if you make a choice, I'm going to work some extra hours this week because it's going to be worth it, it's going to be exciting. And if this is something I want to do, something I choose to do, that has a very different internal perspective and and different connotation to it as well. And so listening to what you're saying here, I think that this is really powerful about the Seven Exits. But I think where I'm thinking the audience might still be struggling is.

How does someone know that they need the Seven Exits? How is someone identifying? Because you mentioned that when all your friends were reading your book, they were like, you're reading about me. How do they know that they're going to identify with your book and with your program if they're listening to this podcast right now? What are some of the triggers? Because I think we're not identifying them the same way that you would. Like how are they showing up in ways that we're not necessarily listening or paying attention the way that we should be?

Dr. Rosenna Bakari (29:41.046)

A couple of questions I would ask. And the first one is always when you get out of bed in the morning, what's your level of joy? For many people, that level, if I ask them to put it on a scale of one to a hundred, what's your level of joy before anything happens to you in the world? Before you get the good phone call or the bad phone call or the coffee's not tasting well, like just when you open your eyes, what's your level of joy? If that's below an 80, even if it's a 79.

Then if you start to ask yourself, what would it look like to be a ninety-nine? I want my daily level of joy to be a ninety-nine. That's where I want, that's become my expectation. Right? And so, and if it's not a ninety-nine, then it's like, okay, is it a ninety? But what I don't want it to be ever is a 60. And for many, many people, it's a 60, it's a 50, it's a not real.

And so I would just ask what is your level of joy without any input from the world?

Shauna Lynn Simon (30:44.95)

I like that too, because I think that sometimes when we're in those seasons of like it's a 60, my level of joy right now is a 60. And when we're in that season, there's always the I just have to get through X. I just have to do Y. Insert random event, whatever it is in your head. But we always have this goal post essentially that we assume that once we get past that goal post, everything will get better.

And then we keep moving the goalposts or we get there and then things didn't improve. So like, okay, I just need to set a new goalpost. And so I think what you're saying is if you're noticing that something's not right right now, instead of chasing that next big idea, chasing that next opportunity, not to say that we're not going to go after those things. Obviously, we we do need to take opportunities where they come and and pursue the things that we want to pursue. But you're basically saying, like, it's time to stop and take stock essentially of.

Are there areas that we could be making our lives a little bit easier so that we can face the day in a way that allows us to be more much more open to those opportunities?

Dr. Rosenna Bakari (31:48.392)

Right. So we have to flip the assumption that success is gonna bring joy. It's the opposite. Joy brings success. When you put joy, yeah. When you approach it with joy because you're not in hyper ego mode and you're not carrying weight of silence and secrecy that you think no one knows, and and you haven't slipped into complacency and you're not full of indoctrination. When you are lighter on those things, you'd be amazed at how much.

quicker you see opportunity or that you can create opportunity. But we've been taught to do it the opposite.

Shauna Lynn Simon (32:25.452)

And I think you absolutely nailed it with that. It's so true. I think that we can't open ourselves up to what's out there if we don't have the bandwidth for it. And that bandwidth doesn't exist if we're not enjoying what it is that we're doing. Once that passion starts fizzling out a little bit, and that's the way that I tend to recognize it with my clients, is that you know, they come to me and there's they say, like, I'm just not passionate about my work anymore. And I don't know if I'm in the right career or I'm thinking about closing things down. Like, and that is something that it can actually be reignited, but

Until we can reignite that passion, you're not going to continue to grow and to continue to succeed because you don't have the bandwidth to properly see things objectively, to see where you actually want to take things. And there is nothing more dangerous than having a business that you've let outside factors and other people essentially dictate where it's going because you have found, like, I'm supposed to this and I'm supposed to do that. And next thing you know, you look up one day and it's not what you were setting out to create. And sometimes

Some of the pivots that we take along the way are great. Yes, we want to, you know, these opportunities come up that we couldn't have dreamt of previously and we roll with it, but we have to be constantly realigning ourselves to acknowledge like, is this actually the direction that I want to go in? And so when we start with joy, and I often say I have kind of a a two question filter that I often use when it comes to figuring out what am I going to work on today or should I take this opportunity? And the two questions are, does this bring me joy and does this make me money?

Because it's great to have joy and you need to have something that just bring you joy and don't necessarily make you any money and absolutely those make sense. But try telling that to my mortgage company that I chose joy over making money 99% of the time this week. So ideally it's gonna do both, but when you lead with joy, it's much easier to find the money that makes the most sense for you and your business.

Dr. Rosenna Bakari (34:19.102)

Exactly. We're talking about what leads. And that's why also going back to the Seven Exits, they're all important. Because one of the exits is complacency. Right? Joy does not slip you into complacency. Fear does that. And that's right, really. You know, like you just, I'm just choosing joy today. No, you're choosing fear today. Right. There's a difference. So that's why looking at all the exits is really important.

Shauna Lynn Simon (34:48.398)

Okay, so someone listening to this right now though is probably like, okay, this is lot to take in. Where do I start? If someone's saying, like, this is me, what's the first small step that you would make recommend they take within the next day, the next week or whatnot? Like what's kind of that first small step that that someone can take to get started?

Dr. Rosenna Bakari (35:05.152)

Small step would be to visit this sevenexits.com and try the 30-day trial membership. It's an easy thing, you don't there's no credit card you need or whatever, but explore you know what else is out there for you or what this might look like for you. So I definitely recommend that. And then the second thing, and to do nothing is just to ask the different question of what does joy look like in my life. Most people will say they don't know.

Therein lies your answer. If you can't really define for yourself what joy looks like, not success, because sometimes when you ask people what do you want, they'll start naming success things they can be successful at, not what brings them joy. Right. Right. And so really start asking you yourself questions about joy instead of success until you start getting different answers from yourself.

Shauna Lynn Simon (36:00.286)

That's fantastic. my goodness. This has been such a fantastic conversation. Dr. Bakari, I so appreciate you joining me today and sharing your Seven Exits framework with the audience. If someone's looking to connect with you, then so you said the membership's at sevenexits.com and that's where they can get that 30-day free trial, no credit card required. Is that right?

Dr. Rosenna Bakari (36:22.824)

Exactly. And they can email me at Dr.B@sevenexits.com

Shauna Lynn Simon (36:26.318)

That's nice and easy. Wonderful. I appreciate it. Well, Dr. Bakari, thank you so much for joining me on the show today. I've truly enjoyed this conversation. I think our listeners are really gonna enjoy it as well.

Dr. Rosenna Bakari (36:35.832)

Thanks, Shauna Lynn. It's been a pleasure.

Shauna Lynn Simon (36:38.126)

Amazing. And listen, if you're listening to this episode, what we're saying here is resonating with you. Of course, I hope that you will continue to allow us to be a part of your journey each week when we drop new episodes every Tuesday morning at 7 a.m. Eastern Time. Don't forget to subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast. And if you've got a moment, I'd love it if you could leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. It really does help the algorithm. But as always, the best way that you can show your support, not only for this show, but for your fellow women entrepreneurs.

Is share this episode with someone that you know is really going to identify with the things that we talked about today. I think that as Dr. Bakari said, so many people in her life, when they read her book, they really saw themselves in it. So I guarantee there's someone that you know who could really benefit from this episode. Please share it with them. It'll certainly help us and make me very happy. And I know it would help them as well. And that's how we continue to help to raise each other up. And until next time, keep thriving.