Ep 136 Transcript: The Difference Between Smart Strategy and Fear Based Decisions
This transcript was auto-generated and may contain errors in spelling or inaccuracies in the spoken words.
Shauna Lynn Simon (01:50.774)
To the Real Women Real Business Podcast. I'm your host, Shauna Lynn Simon. And today I'm going start with a moment that came up in a recent coaching conversation I was having with one of my one-on-one clients. Now, the client was walking me through a decision that she was wrestling with, and she was kind of going back and forth, thinking out loud, you know, trying to figure out whether or not she should create a cheaper, less expensive, not necessarily less quality, but less expensive version of her service. And in her words, something along the lines of, you know, just make it a bit more accessible.
And we're kind of going back and forth, weighing out some of the pros and cons of this. And then I just said to her kind of point blank, said how much of this desire to create this additional service sound like she was like she was tying herself up in knots to try to create this service, in particular to serve a particular client, but also she, you she was saying, like, I can see other people needing this. I said, How much of this is coming from fear? She paused and honestly, about 90%. I love that answer.
First of all, it takes a whole lot of self-awareness to actually say that out loud and admit, but that's exactly where the real work then begins. And then we can dig into things a little bit further. So that's what today's episode is about. You know, how do you tell the difference between a smart business decision and a fear-driven or emotionally charged one? Especially in those seasons when you've just invested in your growth, or maybe you know, you're feeling a bit of a financial pinch in some ways, your expenses suddenly look a lot bigger than you're used to.
And when we're growing and scaling, that could be a very, very real fear that all of a sudden we start doubting some things, we lose a little bit of confidence in some ways, and we start second guessing the things that we've put in place that we know work out of this fear. So let me give you a bit of context before going much further, tell you a little bit more about this scenario. Obviously, I'm not gonna give any details that would identify her, but I'm gonna say this.
This client runs a profitable business. Okay. Her core fees that she charges cover her expenses every single month. And any larger projects, larger clients that she gets, those are the cherry on top. She has steady inquiries coming in. Her reviews are fantastic. Her social media looks amazing. She gets tons of engagement on it. And her clients pay a very real premium for the opportunity to work with her and her team. And they're always happy that they did. So by every measure, this business.
Shauna Lynn Simon (04:08.532)
Is working. But in the span of about a month, a whole lot happened. She hired a new team member, actually, technically a couple of new team members. She paid out another team member who was leaving the team. She committed to a new physical space for her business. She'd also recently raised her prices. And one prospective client had some sticker shock with a proposal that she had done for her. So here she is, you know, she's looking at her bank account, she's looking at her expense line, and it's
Bigger than it has ever been. And there's this little voice in the back of our head that starts up like, what if they don't hire us? What if they don't? What if they say no? What if this was just all too much too soon? To give a little bit more context, the proposal that she was doing, she had brought it to me for review and I poked some holes in it and identified that it was a fair bit lower than it should have been. And when we renegotiated it, talked it out, came up with the number that it should be.
She was in agreement. She did understand that that was the number that needed to be. But then when she presented to the client, the client definitely had some sticker shock. Again, understandable. Let me just say that this is going to happen. Okay. Especially as you grow, you're going to have some clients that just don't have the means to work with you. And so I can understand the desire to create a more accessible option. And in some cases, sometimes that does make sense. I want to be clear that that's not what this episode is about. This episode is not about raise your prices.
Make all this money, leave all the little guys behind. Like that is not what I am saying. But I want to just emphasize that this is a very real thing that happens no matter where you're at in your business, no matter how profitable you are. And so here's what she said to me next. She told me, she says, I've been scared before plenty of times, but she has never actually let that fear stop her from taking that leap in her whole life, in every big decision that she made. She jumped. And this time, for some reason, she felt really.
apprehensive. And I mean, I can relate to this so much. I've had so many instances in my business where no matter how right something feels, a big change, a big jump, a big leap forward, a big growth, it feels scary. I can remember back in 2015 was when I launched the Home Stager Training Program that I have. And I can remember that you know I'm kind of getting a bit of a name for myself at this point.
Shauna Lynn Simon (06:32.162)
People are starting to come to me with some leadership type questions. But overall, people just know me as this woman who runs a home staging business. And then here I am about to put myself out there and say, actually, I'm going to teach you how to do this and do it really, really well. And I am the best person for this. And I knew what I was doing was right. I knew the program I created was like nothing else that was out there. But this was scary because I'm putting my name on top of this. And it took me so much time, so much money to get this thing up and running.
And I definitely felt, I mean, if I'm looking back, I totally underpriced for this thing. But at the same time, I do think I charged a good price. So as much as I say like I I know I undercharge for it, I wasn't giving this thing away. I wasn't asking for like $50 for a program that was worth thousands by any means. But I did give it little bit of like, you know, a beta program pricing. And there was a part of me as I was doing this that I was wondering, like, do I just try to get people in for free? Do I like, do I have to attach a dollar value to this? Like, what does that actually look like?
You know, trying to add more value to the offer, trying to kind of water it down just so that it would fit in. I mean, I can name honestly numerous times that I have done this, and I would love to say that I never do this anymore. It's rare, but every once in a while I catch myself still doing, you know, what feels comfortable, what feels like it's going to help others and please others. And that's a people pleaser in us. Go back to episode 100 if you want to hear a little bit more about how to break some of those people pleasing habits. But getting back to this particular story.
Something I pointed out to the client, and I think a lot of you are going to recognize this, is that growth feels very different from starting. When you first start a business, you're fluid. You try something. If it works, you keep doing it. If it doesn't work, then you tweak it or you abandon it altogether. And all of that just kind of lives in your head. You're the one who remembers, you know, what needs to happen from one client to the next. And you're the one who knows, you know, what's working, what's not working. And then you start to grow.
You hire people, you write things down, you build processes so that the work is repeatable and doesn't depend on you remembering every single little thing. And my client had been doing a fantastic job of this. She's been documenting her processes one by one. Every time she adds one, she feels just one step closer to a business that can run really, really well without her holding on to every single detail. That's a good thing. It does come with a bit of a side effect though, because now when something needs to change, it isn't just.
Shauna Lynn Simon (08:54.838)
You changing your mind. There's a whole trickle-down effect. Your team needs to know, your documents need to be updated, your clients need consistent messaging. So the business can start to feel a bit more rigid, a little less fluid. You know, I start wondering: is my contract too aggressive? Are my policies too strict? But those are all things that we've talked about this previously on the show about managing client expectations as well as internal expectations. Because usually the answer is that, you know.
What you're feeling there is really just the weight of responsibility that comes with making sure that things are going to run smoothly for everyone. And we were accustomed to feeling more flexible, feeling more accommodating, feeling like we could please more people. And you know what? It probably did. But at what cost? I mean, we talked about like, I said yes to everything. I took everything that came in. Great. But did you enjoy every element of it? Did you feel that every one of those jobs was taking you closer to your ultimate goals?
Did you really feel like that's what you should be doing? Or how many times did you take those jobs? Like, I'm really grateful to have some money, but man, this was a lot more work than I expected it to be. I actually had a similar conversation just with a client today, in fact, about how sometimes we'll say yes to something and it'll be a completely different process than anything that we normally do. And now we have to create the SOPs to back it up. We have to research maybe the software that you need with it. All of that takes work. And especially when you have a team, it takes that much more. So the idea of her creating.
This additional package, this additional service that was going to require all of this work, all to then attract a lower budget client. When we're weighing in, I'm like, is this really lucrative? Like, is this actually going to be a profitable service or is this just an attempt to try to please someone? So one of the tests that I gave her so she was questioning a little bit about, you know, contracts, policies, et cetera. So I asked her, you know, do these things benefit the client?
When your contract and your policies are written from the client's perspective, when you can explain why a policy actually protects their experience, so you don't need to apologize for what you've got in place. That discomfort that you're feeling, that's a sign that you're building something that is bigger than yourself. When I started building my team, one of the things that I recognized pretty early on was, wow, they're really good at holding to the policies. Whereas you, as the owner, because you built the business and because you're customer being flexible, it feels easier.
Shauna Lynn Simon (11:09.942)
Say, I can bend that. I can do that a little bit different. I'll make an exception for you. And I'm not saying that you have to be super rigid and never make an exception ever, but there's got to be some boundaries around that. And when I built my team, I built them to understand that there was some flexibility, that there were some times where we could go above and beyond, go the extra mile for the client, but there were boundaries around what that looked like, how much time they were allowed to spend on it, how much money they were allowed to spend on it, and the reason behind why we're doing it. Are we doing it just to be nice? Are we doing it to correct an error that was on our part?
Are we doing it because just because we're good humans, you know? So I decided to do a whole podcast episode, of course, about this whole, you know, figuring out if your decisions are based on are they based on fear? Are they based on this is actually a good decision? And how to kind of do that gut check. and I will also say that oftentimes a lot of my clients will say to me, like, I don't know what my gut is saying because there's just so much going on. It's really difficult to listen to their gut, and their gut has like 16 different ideas. So
I'm going to give you five checks for whether or not this is a fear-based decision.
So, how do you know if it's coming from fear or coming from an actual vision? So these are five things that we talked through. I talked through with my client that I kind of, you know, went back and kind of evaluated and was like, this sounds like something I can share with my audience. I feel like most of these apply to most almost every business. So here's the check number one. No is data. Like the word no, someone saying no to something that you're offering, that is really good data for you. Now listen.
Shauna Lynn Simon (13:33.95)
No one likes hearing no. I get it. Especially when you love what you do and you genuinely want to help everyone. You've got a great connection. I love this person. I adore them. I'd really like to help them out. They're in a tough situation. They've gone through some stuff. And I just really want to help them. But if every single person says yes to you, we've talked about this on this show as well. But if everyone is saying yes to you, your price is too low. It's that simple. That's the reality. When you start getting some no's, now that.
That is where you know you're hidden a sweet spot. Now listen, if you're getting a lot of no's, everyone's saying no, it's definitely worth taking a look at. But before you question the price, because I get this one, I got a lot of pushback. Was it the price or was it how you presented it? Was it your messaging, your packaging? Because often the gap there is not actually a price issue. It's how you're explaining the value of it. And so one more thing that I asked her was has this client actually said no?
Or are you just anticipating a no? Because those are two very different things. And sometimes we're not actually reacting to a rejection at all. We're reacting to the discomfort of not knowing yet. And we start negotiating against ourself. So I will say that at the time the client had not said no. There was sticker shock, but the client had not said no. I'll circle back to that one. Okay, check number two. Discounting to win the bigger sale rarely works out.
This one is so common. My client admitted that in the past when she knew a project had the potential for a bigger sale later. Okay. And home stagers, I'm talking to you here because how often do you have that builder client or that real estate agent who's like, just give me a discount on this one job and I'm going to give you a ton of business? So you lower your fees up front to make sure that you land the job. Seems logical, right? Give a little now to win a lot later. But let's think this through. When you lower your fee, you're cutting the very profit that you were counting on.
From that bigger sale, right? So it just balances out in the end. Like you made less money on this one. So that bigger sale is now less profitable, too. It doesn't actually balance you out. And what if that bigger sale never happens? You've simply done the work for less than it's worth and you're going to feel resentful. You're also positioning your work to be negotiable and less valuable than it actually is. Your fee should reflect your work and your worth. Full stop. The bigger sale, that's a bonus.
Shauna Lynn Simon (15:54.454)
It's not a reason to discount things. Okay, so check number three. If you do decide you want to offer multiple options, whether it's to meet different price points or different needs of your clients, that's fine. I actually love this, but you need to keep it intentional. So I teach a lot about pricing, and one strategy that I love is the tiered options.
For a smaller offer like a consultation or a software subscription, like we were all signed up for a ton of different monthly software things, right? I can remember what before that was a thing. And then people all of a sudden they're like, we're gonna charge you monthly for a subscription. We're all like, What? And now that's just the common place. And usually when you sign up for a subscription, there are three tiers to it, right? And which tier do you normally pick? Pick that middle tier. That's what has what you actually want at a price that makes the most sense. So I am big on helping my clients to build a three-tier offering.
That makes that middle one the biggest no-brainer, makes sense for everyone and is profitable, truly profitable for my client. It allows them to have a lower budget option that satisfies the winers or the people who are gonna be a little bit more price sensitive, and also allows them to have a higher end option to service a higher clientele. Now, for larger high-ticket offerings, I generally recommend no more than two options. And here's why that works. And I will say, like I do a lot of proposals where I give them exactly one option.
Sometimes I don't think it makes sense for two options. And sometimes you want to take that decision making away from them because you do want it to be just a yes or no. But here's the thing: when you send just one proposal, that's exactly the challenge with it, is you are asking a yes or no question. Do you want to work with us or not? Now, when you send two proposals, the question becomes which one fits you best? So both answers end up being a yes. Now the catch is though that this has to make sense for the business that you're building.
My client was considering a second option that she had already tried. It was a stressful experience for her and for her client. She'd already decided that she never wanted another client to go through that again. So here she is trying to justify a reason to do it for someone else. So adding that back in purely because she was nervous about the pricing would have been fear making that decision. So a second option should be something that you'd be really proud to deliver, right? It's not gonna be a compromise that you'll regret.
Shauna Lynn Simon (18:07.554)
Okay, so here's check number four. Ask yourself: Am I stepping over a $20 bill to pick up a nickel? Sometimes we put these blinders on and we can't see what's really right in front of us. So imagine you're walking down the street. And for those of you who are on video, you can kind of see what I'm doing here. But I'm basically putting my hands under my eyes. I can't see directly below me, but I can see in further in front of me. So I see a nickel up ahead, and I'm gonna walk to that nickel and grab it. But in the meantime, I miss the $20 bill that was at my feet because I didn't look down.
So when expenses go up, it's really tempting sometimes to say yes to anything that brings in money. But the smaller projects aren't always actually smaller. And they can take so just as much communication, just as much coordination, just as much detail and level of your time. And then it's also a lot of task switching for your team to take on some of these smaller projects potentially. So they pull focus from the clients who are actually that best fit for you. So before you say yes, ask yourself after the time, the energy, and the capacity that this takes, is it actually going to be worth it? And sometimes it is.
But sometimes you're picking up a nickel while a $20 bill sits right in front of you. So review the opportunities that you have. So in this particular case, she had a full pipeline with this particular client when they got the sticker shock of this potential no. She's got a full pipeline. She's got other yeses in the pipeline, but this particular one was sitting so heavy with her because you guessed it, she wasn't used to hearing no. Now, check number five. Your warmest leads are already.
In your world. So when we're scared about the pipeline, we tend to go chase strangers. But your past clients, those are your lowest hanging fruit. They already trust you. They already know what it's like to work with you. And they know people just like them. So for my client, she's got this new space that's that she's acquiring that's opening. And so I suggested why don't we do a client appreciation event there then? Instead of cutting our prices for this client, let's take that money that you would have invested in that. Let's throw it into a client appreciation event.
Invite your past clients, ask them to bring a friend. One of the fastest ways to quality leads and referrals. And then here's the other side of it. Every hour that you spend chasing the next job is an hour you're not spending on your processes, improving the client experience for those clients that have already paid you. Profit doesn't only come from new clients, it comes from doing the work more efficiently and delivering the experience that you promised your clients in the first place. So when your behind the scenes is solid, you're ready when the right yes comes along. Now.
Shauna Lynn Simon (20:33.24)
Because I know that you're in suspense of this. I said earlier that this client had not said no yet. So you're probably wondering. So did the client say yes? I'm gonna tell you, she did not. She said no. And the best thing was I got a message from my client saying, Well, she said no, but you know what? No's are good. This is a good thing. Because she knew that trying to say yes to anything less than what she was offering.
was just going to compromise her and her team. So she got the no. In the last, so this was, I'm going to say about three or four days ago. And in those three or four days, she has landed several new clients, jobs, and opportunities that have come in that are the right fit. Do you know how much she would have regretted taking on that project for less than what she's worth, knowing that there's these other clients who are just thrilled and excited and saying, like, yes, I want to work with you.
I've been waiting for the opportunity to work with you. So let's bring this all together. When you're facing a decision, I want you to ask yourself one question. Would I still make this choice if I weren't looking at my expense line today? And I I've asked this in a similar way previously. I have said, you know, like, what would I do if money didn't matter? Right. That's one of the questions that I often ask. What would the decision be? How would I handle this particular situation if the money didn't matter? So ask yourself, would I still make this choice if I weren't looking at my expense line today?
If the answer is yes, great. Then that decision is actually rooted in your vision. If the answer is no, I want you to pause because that's your fear talking. And fear deserves to be heard. But it shouldn't be the one making the call. And trust me, I hear you when you're like, but listen, Shauna Lynn, my bank account is running dry. I need the money. This is in front of me. I need this money. And I get that because here's the thing: when you're so focused on the bottom line, when you're so focused on that expense line, it can be really easy for us to not see.
opportunities that are in front of us. But again, is there a $20 bill laying at your feet that you haven't seen? So instead of trying something new and just instead of reinventing the wheel, instead of discounting what you're doing, what if we looked at the things that we're already doing that we can lean into more? Or is there an opportunity for a past client that you haven't talked to a little while? Like maybe it's just a matter of doing a couple of extra touches there, like what does this look like to really move the needle forward? And when we're so stressed about money, the problem is we put blinders on and we can hardly see some of these things.
Shauna Lynn Simon (22:55.542)
So we want to trick our brain basically and our body into thinking that we have an abundance of money and then make decisions from there. And I will tell you it will lead to the actual money. And I want to be clear, I am not dismissing fear. Real bills are real. A bigger expense line is a very real thing to be paying attention to. But when fear is the only thing that's driving a decision, that's where we get into trouble. When you can back up a decision with, well, this also fits the business that I'm building.
So maybe there's something on your vision board and it's a bit further down the line, but there's a great opportunity coming up right now that would really lead into that vision. Maybe it does make sense to do that. And that's when you can actually move forward with confidence. Now, my client mentioned someone whose philosophy she admires as a business owner who made a very deliberate decision to work with only the very top of the market. Every client, every partner.
And she built her business to attract exactly that. And so my client is telling me this is what I admire. Now, my client isn't taking that big of a leap today. And you don't have to either. But I do love the idea behind it. Decide who your business is for and then build it to attract those people, even when a few others say no along the way. Now, after my conversation with my client, I also gifted her a couple of audiobooks and I'm going to share them with you today. You can find them on Audible.
Wherever you get your audiobooks, you can also find them in hard book form, whatever suits you best. But honestly, don't take my word for this. These philosophies, I would love to say that I came up with this idea all by myself. I can tell you that I have experienced this, I have practiced it. So when I read these two books, they just solidified everything that I already knew with real case studies, with real data. And that was pretty powerful. So Dan Sullivan and Dr. Benjamin Hardy, they explained this far better than I can. So the first book.
Is 10x Is Easier Than 2x. The idea is that aiming for dramatically bigger growth often actually simplifies your business because it forces you to let go of everything that doesn't fit. So I recommend reading that book first. The second is called The Science of Scaling. And that builds on that 10x Is Easier Than 2x and it gets into how to actually grow without burning yourself out. Now, both of them are about kind of the same thing that we talked about today, letting go of what's smaller to make room for what's larger.
Shauna Lynn Simon (25:19.688)
And before you go, I do want you to think about one thing. Where in your business are you about to make a decision out of fear? Maybe it's a discount. Maybe it's a project that you know isn't a fit. Maybe it's an offer you already decided you don't want to deliver, but somebody else is asking for it. I want you to ask yourself that question. Would I still make this choice if I weren't looking at my expense line? Or maybe it's if would I still make this choice if I wasn't looking at my bank account? And that will help you to drive your decisions going forward.
So now you have five very real things that you can use to do that gut check. So you're not just saying, like, I'm just gonna have a conversation with my gut and be hey, gut, what do think I should do today? These are five very real questions that you can ask yourself in order to do that gut check. And again, I'm using one particular client as an example here. I've worked with numerous clients over the years that have faced similar challenges. And I'm gonna tell you, as their coach,
I am confident when I am telling them that you need to raise your price, you need to eliminate some of your clients, we need to reposition you. Like I know when that's the right move for them. But I gotta tell you, doesn't mean that I don't have a little bit of that fear as well, of like, crap, I hope I did the right thing there. but realistically, yes, I always know when it's right because I'm not going to encourage them. I think people think they see me as this person who's constantly talking about raising your prices.
I'm not just arbitrarily talking about raising prices. I don't think everyone should just raise their prices. That's not what where this is based in. It's more about aligning your vision, your future business, and your value and positioning with what the market actually needs, what you actually offer. It's about making sure that everything reflects who you really are. Now, listen, I have worked with clients who are bigger on quantity versus quality, and they bang things out for a very low price. And if that's your model,
At it, I am not disputing that that model can work as well. But a lot of times the economies of scale come when we scale our business up and when we can do it in a way that feels good for us. That means that we're not carrying everything. If you're carrying everything in your business, the idea of doing more feels like you're just gonna have to do more, right? But the reality is if you talk to some of the top CEOs of businesses, they are not working all of the hours of all the days. In fact, they actually have quite a bit of time on their hands because they have learned the art of scaling.
Shauna Lynn Simon (27:36.992)
strategically and intentionally. And that is something that I want you to be able to do. I'm all about making sure that we are working smarter, dreaming bigger, and really achieving our goals. So if this is something where you're like, listen, Shauna Lynn, this sounds exactly like what I need, then you got to come and join me in the Real Women Real Business Mastery Program, because that is where we break it all down, give you the actual tools to be able to move forward confidently and be able to help you with those decisions and help to check you when you might be making a decision out of fear.
Rather than one that's based and rooted in your vision. One of the first things that we do in the program is we do help you to identify what that vision is. Then we also look at where are the biggest holes that need to be plugged in order for you to be able to strategically and intentionally move forward in your business. And moving forward looks a little bit different for everyone else. Let me tell you, I am not helping you to create a business that looks like everybody else's business. Is it rooted in frameworks that I have tried and tested? Absolutely it is, but they are adapted.
To you, your business, and your needs specifically. I work with a lot of creatives, a lot of neurodivergents. We all come from different backgrounds, different styles, different approaches to things. And I can promise you that everything that we do in the program really works to help you to build the business that you need. So if you want to check it out, simply go to realwomenrealbusiness.com to learn more. You can also set up a call with me at aboutshaunalynn.com/coachme. And we can have a chat and see what the best fit is for you.
In the meantime, thank you so much for tuning in again. I so appreciate that you have included me in your journey and that you tuned in to hear what I had to say today. And I hope that you got true value out of this. I respect your time and I know how valuable it is. And I appreciate you sharing it with me. The best way that you can show your support, go on to your whatever podcast platform you're on right now and just tap that review button, leave us a five-star review. Feel free to share a few words about why you're enjoying this podcast. It really does help the algorithm. It helps other people to find us.
Make sure you subscribe to the podcast. That will make sure that you actually get notified every time a new episode drops. That also helps us, of course. And then the best way that you can totally selfishly help me, but also help your fellow women entrepreneurs is take this episode, share it with someone that you know needs to hear this today. Just click that share button and forward it on to whatever friend you know needs to hear this because I know you've got some other powerful women in your life as well that could use this message just as much as you need it.
Shauna Lynn Simon (30:01.922)
So thank you again for tuning in and until next time, keep thriving.