Ep 110 Transcript: Stop Fighting Your Brain and Start Building a Business That Works with Shannyn Schroeder
This transcript was auto-generated and may contain errors in spelling or inaccuracies in the spoken words.
Shauna Lynn Simon (01:50.318)
Hello and welcome to the Real Women Real Business podcast. I am your host, Shauna Lynn Simon. And today's guest is Shannyn Schroeder. She is the founder of EF Bomb Coach. Don't worry, we're gonna explain what that F really means. It's EF Bomb Coach. And Shannyn helps neurodivergent women better understand executive function, hint, hint, and build supportive systems that make business and life feel more manageable. She's got a background in executive function coaching, special education, and years of real world business experience.
She blends practical tools with self-acceptance to help women to stop blaming themselves and start working with their brains instead of against them. And so in this conversation, we're going to be talking about ADHD, executive function and why business can feel so much harder than it needs to when the advice you've been given was actually never built for the way that your brain works. So Shannyn, welcome to the podcast. Thank
Shannyn Schroeder (02:42.862)
Thank you so very much for having me. I'm excited to be here today.
Shauna Lynn Simon (02:46.484)
I'm thrilled to have because I got to say, I work with a lot of creative professionals. I would say the main listeners that are listening to this episode are creative professionals in some way. So a lot of home stages, interior designers, photographers, artists, that sort of profession. And so I feel in my experience that I have worked with a lot, probably more than the average person in terms of neurodivergent clients. And I've learned a lot of things along the way, but
always, this is such a great topic that really interests me because I think there's still a lot of misinformation out there and a lot of things we don't fully understand about what it means to be neurodivergent. And especially for those who have that diagnosis, whether it was now or recently or several years ago, I think that there's a lot of misconceptions still as to what this means. And they don't realize that this can actually be their superpower and instead are constantly trying to fight.
against where they naturally are. And like I can see you're laughing, you're nodding your head here because you're like, yes, I know. I get it. But can we make sure the rest of world gets it today?
Shannyn Schroeder (03:53.454)
Yes, that is my goal in life is to really like spread the word. Absolutely. And for me, working with women, so many of the women I work with are neurodivergent, but they came to the realization that the official diagnosis so much later in life because let's face it, women get forgotten about, girls are not looked at, all of the tests and things that we use to diagnose are based on boys.
You know, really like white boys at that. Yes. And it's so different. So most women, you know, they, they went all the way into adulthood and I started my business because I want to say really like during COVID is when we saw a huge, a huge spike because, know, because everybody was sitting at home and there's scrolling, TikTok and everybody's like, Hey, this is what it looks like when you have ADHD. And so then you've all these grown women who've lived forever going
Shauna Lynn Simon (04:27.554)
Yep. And it presents differently.
Shannyn Schroeder (04:53.934)
Huh? Wait... And they start to question things and they get the diagnosis and that's great. I just saw so many women like in my life, like friends of friends and getting the diagnosis, which is great. There's like that huge sense of relief of like, wow, that explains so much, which is then always followed by the total anger of why the heck wasn't this?
figured out like how different would my life have been for the last 30 years if someone caught this when I was, you know, eight. But then there's a, but now what? does this actually mean? What does this actually mean for me? And that's kind of like where I put myself is that I am your now what person.
Shauna Lynn Simon (05:29.902)
Thank
Shauna Lynn Simon (05:38.926)
Well, and especially depending on where they fall in terms of, I mean, and I don't know how far you want to get into this today, but I know there are different variations of how it presents and how people function. And so they may decide to go like deep dive into research mode, you know, which I've definitely seen more than a few people do that. And other people who are just like, I don't know what it means and they can't even wrap their head around it and they can't.
They don't have the focus to dive into it further as well, which is also why a podcast like this is so helpful to help them to understand a little bit better about how to work with it, as opposed to just trying to do all the research themselves.
Shannyn Schroeder (06:17.686)
Right. And I do think that that's pretty much like the two camps of people, the people who are like, my gosh, I need to understand all of it and figure it out. And then people who are like, I've made it this far. It's working more or less, you know? And even though like the, hey, it's working more or less, like that's really what I think most women have just learned to project. Yeah.
Shauna Lynn Simon (06:41.014)
I mean, we found some coping mechanisms and we lean into them. And that's not necessarily a bad thing either. Like, yes, obviously we do need to have some of those coping skills and safety tricks, so to speak, of like, know, things that, I mean, I don't know. Does anyone else put their car keys in somewhere where like you actually absolutely have to grab this item and so that you forget that way. I'm not going to forget to grab that particular item. I put my car keys with it. Like it's, or the post-it note right at the door as you're walking out that says, did you turn off the stove? Like.
These are very real things that we can do and they're not a bad thing to have. I mean, they're quite effective in fact.
Shannyn Schroeder (07:16.846)
And see, those kinds of things are like tools and strategies like that I would suggest to someone who's like, you know, I spend 20 minutes running through my house when I am already 20 minutes late and now I'm running around looking for my keys. And we talk about things like, you know, having like anchor points, like, you know, you have to walk through the door, make sure it's there. Does it happen overnight? No, it takes a lot of practice and, know, things like that. But when we talk about executive function skills, we're like,
I, you know, it's a fancy way of just saying your adulting skills. The bottom line, that's all it is. Your time management, your organization, your planning, all of that. The things that you're expected to just know how to do as an adult. And neurotypical people will figure out those things. Like, I should put my keys in a spot that's obvious. I will remember where they are every single time. Neurodivergent people don't think that way because they've got 42 million other things all in their head at any given point that they, that like their filter is not as strong.
And so the keys land in, you know, 15 different places and that's why they're searching for them. And the neurotypical people in their lives would be like, why can't you just put them here? Or why can't you just remember where you, you know, where you put them? And truly, yeah, it's just, if I could get rid of any one phrase for all of my people to never have to hear, why don't you just? Well, if I could just, I would.
Shauna Lynn Simon (08:35.746)
And I think we do, I do want to definitely get into that a little bit as well of some of the negative self-talk that a lot of people have developed because of some of these things that have been said to them over the years. So they start talking down on themselves. But before we get to that, let's just define executive function. So I know you're talking about the tools are kind of like adulting, but what.
what actually is executive function. And so for those also who are listening, and I mentioned your company name, can we also talk about that for a moment as well? What EF Bomb actually is all about.
Shannyn Schroeder (09:07.16)
Certainly. So executive function are those skills that you use pretty much in every facet of your life. Things like time management, task initiation, like getting started on something, especially with something you don't like to do. Organization, planning, prioritization, emotional regulation, working memory, cognitive flexibility, like being able to see things from other perspectives. Those are all your executive function skills. And if you are neurodivergent,
It's not a guarantee that you're going to struggle with executive function skills. We just see a huge overlap is that people who are neurodivergent, regardless of, you know, what flavor of neuro spicy you have, there's a, there's a much higher coexistence comorbidity of executive dysfunction. And you might be like, you might be the best planner in the world. Like you are super like organized in that way. You use your planner every single day, every year your time management is dead on, but maybe.
you know, your house is a hot mess and like that level of organization doesn't happen. So it's not like you have to struggle with all of the skills. You might be good at some and struggle with others. And so there is no hard and fast rule for any of it because that's what narrowed vergence is that every brain is truly that unique. And that's why, because executive function is like my thing. The name for my company EF Bomb is because
in my life when I'm talking to adults, like an actual F-bomb, the curse word, like that is part of my natural language when I'm talking to people. So I don't, you know, I don't filter it. When I'm in teacher mode, I filter. But yes, like I curse. And so for me, it's just a fun play on words because that is who I am. And I don't like, and I don't filter that self, you know, that part of myself. Like I don't, you know, do the makeup and the hair like no, I'm sitting here in a t-shirt because it's the way I dress every day. This is the way I talk.
Shauna Lynn Simon (11:00.046)
I want you to show up like, you know, and we talked about this a little bit before I press record, but the name of this podcast is called the Real Women Real Business Podcast. And if if my guests weren't showing up as who they authentically are, kind of defeating the whole purpose of this,
Shannyn Schroeder (11:13.662)
Exactly. So yeah, that's, that's where it's from. And so people know upfront, like they see that name and if it's one of those and it's not for you, that's totally cool. I get it. That I'm, not your person. If you are going to be offended by that, that's cool. There's lots of information out there. You don't have to actually talk to me.
Shauna Lynn Simon (11:29.986)
Yeah, absolutely. But nonetheless, mean, it does play into, plays really well into something that I think is really, is going to really resonate with those who are neurodivergent. And that is about the filtering element of things. Like you said, you can filter yourself as needed, but the preference is to not filter yourself. And a lot of neurodivergent people find themselves trying to filter themselves because they don't feel comfortable being their true selves because of those could you adjust type moments.
And so now they've been categorized, whether by someone else or by themselves or a combination of the two as lazy, as scattered, or just bad at certain things. I'm just "bad at business. I'm just bad with numbers. I'm just bad with information. I'm just bad at remembering things. now they're continually reinforcing all of these things in their own head because that's what they've been told. So how do we help them?
I mean, I'm guessing in a lot of these cases, like executive function is the actual issue. How do we help them to differentiate and break free without, of course, just making an excuse for everything too? Like there's a point where you do need to get some work done. So could you adjust, like, does need to happen to an extent.
Shannyn Schroeder (12:44.256)
Yes. And this is not about making excuses or anything like that. For me, one of the things that I say all the time is that if you're neurodivergent, that does not mean that you are lazy, stupid, or broken. Because that is what you've probably heard for decades. mean, if you're my age, yeah, it's been going on for decades that this is the way people talk to you. well, she just can't be on time. She doesn't know how. Or, you know, look at this house. It's such a mess. Why can't you clean it up?
And that has been internalized. So even you could be the most successful CEO out in the world and everybody can look at you as like, but she's got her stuff together. But if you're neurodivergent, you have, you're just exhausted. And part of that comes not just from the work itself, but because of the masking you have to do. That super filter that you put on to make it look like you have all of your stuff together all of the time. And while from the outside it looks that way internally,
You are a storm of chaos and you've used your coping mechanisms and you can make things happen. But that's why we see such a high level of burnout in high achieving women because they've spent so much time masking. So if you struggle with things like time management or organization, you're always kind of trying to play catch up for that. Plus you're holding on to this entire mask of see I'm all put together. So and then behind the scenes you're scrambling. And if you're already struggling with some of those skills that makes you tired,
but now you're piling on all of these other things plus the mask to let everybody, so that nobody has to see that you're a hot mess.
Shauna Lynn Simon (14:17.774)
I'm tired just, yeah, just you running through the list, yeah.
Shannyn Schroeder (14:20.654)
It just is. so like that your burnout, know, the chances of burnout, the levels of burnout that we see are just skyrocketing. And the more we look at who is struggling with that level of burnout, they're like, but she's so good at everything. Yeah, she's so good at everything she does because she has that neurodivergent brain, which is truly brilliant and can do amazing things. But in order for her to allow that brain to do all of those things,
she still has to put up this huge mask so she looks "normal" while she's doing all those awesome things. And you can only do it for so long before your brain's like, you know what? I'm out.
Shauna Lynn Simon (15:01.102)
Right. And for anyone who is not watching the video version of this, please understand that "normal" is in quotes here at all times, at all times on the show. That's just an automatic, the word "normal" is always in quotes. Because I think that, I think this is one of the challenges though, is that there's advice has been standardized. And as you've mentioned often for like,
men for that matter. So it's not even just that, you know, diagnosis for neurodivergent is different, but, in general, most business advice is very masculine. It's very male dominated. and it's very, you know, one size fits all. And so now when you're a neurodivergent woman and you're like, well, I'm doing all the things people are telling me to do. But this business advice that I'm getting isn't working for me. And, I've heard it from so many of my clients before, but I've tried time blocking. It doesn't work for me. Sure. That makes
perfect sense. Let's not do that anymore. there are, I know, ways that we can manage it. But what's your advice for someone when they're stepping into this and they're realizing that traditional business advice isn't working? And I can imagine that's probably exhausting for them. So they're feeling like, I'm just going to give up on everything because I'm clearly just, again, quote, "bad at business."
Shannyn Schroeder (16:10.958)
That's exactly it. there's the good and the bad. So the good is you can improve your executive function skills. So that story you've been telling yourself, I'm just not organized or I'm just bad at planning. That is a moment in time right now. like science, like the brain science behind it has shown us that yes, you can in fact teach an old dog new tricks. Absolutely you can. Neuroplasticity is real. Like you can rewire your brain.
Bad side of this is that there is no easy button. Like I cannot say, here's what neurotypical business advice is, just do this instead because you're neurodivergent. That doesn't work because that's assuming that every neurodivergent brain is going to be the same. So it takes a lot of trial and error and experimentation. And that can be exhausting, you know, like, because you just really want something that will work.
And so, yes, when we look at things like, you know, the Pomodoro method, that time blocking 25 minutes on five minutes off, I talk about it and can it be a useful tool? It works for lots of people. But you know what, for my neurodivergent people, my ADHDers out there, you know what, your Pomodoro might not be 25 minutes. It might be 12. It might be 15. And if you own that and say, you know what, 25 isn't going to work for me, but I could do 15.
Shauna Lynn Simon (17:15.5)
Absolutely.
Shannyn Schroeder (17:33.774)
your productivity will skyrocket if that's your sweet spot. But when you try and drag it out for 25, well at 15 your brain's done anyway and your brain starts to do and you're dancing all over the place. And then you're like, well, why couldn't I get everything done? Well, because you were not treating your brain the way it gives you the signals. You've just learned to ignore those signals. So a lot of what I do is like teaching women to look at and learn those signals, to understand where the struggles are, where the strengths are.
to listen to their brain so they could find those magic tools that will actually work for them.
Shauna Lynn Simon (18:08.654)
And I think that's probably one of the things that women especially struggle with is, you know we've always talked about women's intuition. We know in our gut when something feels right and when it feels off and we have been somewhat unconsciously subdued from actually leaning into those things and those, the gut feelings have been dismissed for decades, for generations. Now,
Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of men out there who I know that like, listen, I'm not messing with a woman's intuition. She knows what she's talking about. If she says her gut is telling her something, I'm going to listen to her. So there are plenty of men. So I'm not saying that this is the entire world, but in general, if you like women have told like, back it up. But my intuition tells me, like, I feel this and trying to lead you to that and trusting ourselves when we've been taught not to trust ourselves. Right. We're clearly hysterical.
Shannyn Schroeder (18:57.174)
Right, because emotions.
Shauna Lynn Simon (19:00.75)
Let's bring the hysteria diagnosis back, shall we? Yeah. Okay, I want to dive a little bit further into this. And we're going to do that as soon as we get back from this short break. All right. Welcome back to the Real Women Real Business podcast where we've been talking with Shannyn Schroeder and we're talking about neurodivergence and how it's actually a superpower for you. And I want to make sure that this is also coming through like really loud and clear that there are ways of being able to, as Shannyn has said, sort of retrain your brain a little bit, rewire that neuroplasticity. You know, you can actually rewire your brain a little bit. But there's a reason why things are feeling
harder because of that neurodivergence. So if someone is maybe listening to this and saying, I haven't been diagnosed, but everything you're saying is kind of tracking like this sounds like me, what's the first step they should take if they're pre diagnosis?
Shannyn Schroeder (21:01.88)
So here's the thing, I never care if someone's got the official diagnosis. Because for a lot of women, depending on where you are, what your healthcare situation is, like there are some women who will ask for a diagnosis, ask to be tested and they get pushed back because, well you're 40, what difference does it make now? And so that's my approach. Like I don't care if you have the doctor stamp of, look, you have ADHD or you are on the spectrum.
To me, that doesn't matter. If you're hearing this and you're hearing the descriptions and the characteristics and you're like, that's me, that's okay. You can self-diagnose. And there are going to be some circles, you know, online that you will find if you're like, well, it's not real if it's self-diagnosed. But know that there are lots of other places, people like me who are like, it doesn't matter. Cause we know the hurdles that you have to try and get to get the diagnosis. So it's up to you.
do you need it to be official? And for some people, they need it to be official, like for their families and friends, so that they can start to help them understand what they're struggling with. But outside of that, for me, it's about starting to understand what aspects of your neurodivergence is negatively impacting your life, because it's not all bad. Being different is not bad.
Shauna Lynn Simon (22:25.386)
Yeah, but we just kind of lump it all together. Right. And feel like we should be, again, quote, "normal." And that would make everything better. But there are certain elements that, yeah, you don't need to fix that. Why?
Shannyn Schroeder (22:35.958)
Exactly. And so you look at the things that you're really good at. I think that Shauna Lynn part of why you have so many creatives that you work with is that because those are the people who started to really honor their brain and let their brain like go wild because that's where creativity comes from, right? It's not like locked down. It's got to be logic. and so when you see that, but then there's still that other part, yes, you could be a creative, but you know what? If you want to make money and have a business, you got to do the other things too.
The thing is that the other things, that's what really requires the executive function. so there is no, like I said, there's no magic pill. There's no easy button that you could press. But if you start looking at here are the executive function skills, these are the ones that I know. Like if someone says, plan your day and you're cringing, you're like, gosh, no, I can't do that. That might be a skill that you might want to start working on. Like to start looking for.
tools and strategies that would benefit that skill. And what you'll see is that when you start to work on one skill, it has a ripple out effect because these skills are totally intertwined with each other. So if you start getting better at planning, then your time management will start to improve. Your task initiation might start to improve. So that's why one of the freebies that I have for everybody is a quiz. It's
Like a 10 question quiz. I'm not about testing people and making life difficult. It's like 10 questions, right? It's like 10 questions, multiple choice, and you just answer the questions. And at the end, it'll be like, hey, based on these results, it seems like this is your biggest struggle. It might be task initiation or organization. So you'll get feedback like this is what it means. But then I also give you like three strategies of like, are three things that you could try to help with this skill.
you decide to take the quiz, but you're like, but they all sound like me. You don't have to retake the quiz like four different times to get all the results. will, I email you like copies of all of the results so you can, so you can peek it. you can take a peek. Cause I know that I started, when I first launched it, I had people like, I could see them like going back like three times. I'm like, why are they doing that? And I'm like, they just want to know what the other ones are.
Shauna Lynn Simon (24:51.451)
Right, right, so try different answers.
Shannyn Schroeder (24:54.016)
So I will email you your results and then I will give you links to all of the other ones so that you could, so you can get all of the strategies for all of them that I have listed.
Shauna Lynn Simon (25:02.542)
Which is awesome. so yeah, so we'll give you, we'll make sure that that link is in the show notes. It's efbombcoach.com/bottleneck-quiz. So I know it's a little bit of a mouthful. So we'll make sure that's in the show notes and the resources for everyone, of course, as well. I know one of the things that I talk about with my neurodivergent clients is, and I shouldn't say just with my neurodivergent clients, with all my clients, one of the big things we talked about is outsourcing the things that you're just not good at. Because this is how any successful business is built is
hiring people who are smarter than you, better than you at doing certain things. And one of the challenges is always that we think that no one's going to want to do this crappy job because I sure as heck don't want to do it. So clearly no one else is going to want to do it. Meanwhile, what you don't understand is there are people out there that thrive on that crappy job that you don't want to do. And so while I can't say you can outsource everything that you want to do, mean, technically you can, but depending on the type of business that you're running, chances are we're not going to outsource everything. But there are ways to
get, hire the right people, get the right people in the right seats on that bus and have them help you drive the business forward. One of the biggest things with every one of my clients is always to make sure that we're not just because something needs to get done doesn't mean you have to do it just because you're the CEO and wearing all the hats. One of the big things I know for neurodivergent is definitely like documenting processes, SOPs, like I can't do that. Like, cool, don't record yourself the next time you're doing it.
let someone else document it or the recording is good enough to like there are methods to these things that again, working with someone like yourself who truly understands what the different challenges are, what they look like and can provide resources for them. I think it's so incredibly helpful. Going back to the self diagnosis element, how does someone kind of differentiate between like, I think I'm just unmotivated versus like, I'm like, I'm being overloaded, I'm dysregulated, like how?
can they identify? Because I mean, these are probably women who also have kids and a significant other spouse and mortgage payments and soccer pickups and aging parents that they're taking care of. We're being pulled in a lot of different directions. And some days it just kind of all comes to a head. we're like, that's it, I'm just checking out. But how do we know the difference between just being unmotivated and being overloaded?
Shannyn Schroeder (27:23.854)
Let me talk about the overloaded, the feeling of overwhelm first, because that is like, overwhelm is such a big catch all for everybody. But when we talk about the brain, one of the things that is helpful to understand, and I'm going to do this, and if you're not watching it on Zoom, can go to YouTube and look for Dr. Dan Siegel. And he does a video of this, but he talks about, he created a hand model of the brain, which is just, tuck your thumb inside your fist and fold your fingers over. And that's like what your brain looks like right behind your eyeballs.
And that part where your fingers folded over, that's your executive function. That lives in the prefrontal cortex right behind your forehead. Underneath your thumb, your thumb is your amygdala. That's the emotional part of your brain. And so when you are stressed, when you are angry, when you are overwhelmed, your amygdala takes over and you flip your lid, right? So your fingers shoot up and the amygdala is in charge. And when you're like that, you can't access those skills.
Shauna Lynn Simon (28:11.886)
you
Shannyn Schroeder (28:19.628)
You cannot access those executive function skills that you need to do the things that have to be done. That's where the shutting down comes from. That's why you can sit on your phone and scroll TikTok for two hours and not do the, even though you know these other things have to happen, it's because you're emotionally dysregulated. And that's not you being lazy. That's your body saying, I can't do this. And your body is saying it because your brain does not differentiate that feeling of overwhelm and stress and being chased by a tiger. Yep.
who your brain, it's the same level of fear. It is, need to protect you. And that was not the time to think about your, your planner or what, what, you know, project you have to do because we are, we're fighting or fighting for, yeah, we're in survival mode. Yeah. So that's the first thing is that I always start there because that's, that's where most women are truly like, there times when you're unmotivated? Cause it's something you want to do.
Shauna Lynn Simon (29:06.734)
No.
Shannyn Schroeder (29:17.632)
Yes, that's a human experience. But I always start with regulate your body and starting to learn self-regulation tools that work for you. Like we talk a lot about breathing and people are like, I know how to breathe. But we do that because breathing is so universal and it's so easy to do. And we're not talking about 10 minutes. We're not talking about going into a quiet room and meditating and, and, you know, funky poses. And we're talking about just stopping and
regulating your entire nervous system because when you do that, when you start to take some deep breaths and you just relax your body a bit, you lower your blood pressure and your heart rate and you're telling your brain, I am actually safe. And if you do that and your body is truly calm, then you should be able to access some of those executive function skills so that you can determine, am I fighting this because there's some other problem or am I fighting this just because I'm bored? You know, I'm not motivated.
And if motivation is the issue, then you just, that's an easier one to, an easier hurdle, because then you just have to look for things to make it interesting. You know, like I have to write an email. Okay. I really hate writing email. Okay. How fast can I do it? Can I do this email, knock out all the information in four sentences or less? Now that's a challenge. Right. And your brain's like, Ooh, that's fun. Let's try it. Yeah.
Shauna Lynn Simon (30:24.046)
Thanks
Shauna Lynn Simon (30:38.048)
Exactly. Playing little games.
Shannyn Schroeder (30:40.846)
So like I said, most women, it's the overwhelm piece. You're overloaded. Your nervous system is shot and you don't even realize it. That's what leads to the burnout. So I always start with like learn some strategies that feel right for you. yes, I mean, there are tons of them out there. Yes, breathing is one, but there's the grounding exercises where, five things I see, four things I can hear, you know, where you kind of do a countdown. Find the ones that work for you.
You know, try some of them and if you're sitting there saying, this feels stupid. Okay. That's not the right one for you.
Shauna Lynn Simon (31:16.174)
But that's exactly it. know it's something that with all of my coaching clients,
dive pretty deep into stress management because if we can't regulate that element, everything else doesn't fall into place. So you can, for example, change your eating habits and work out every day, but you're still not going to lose weight because your cortisol levels are so high. And so it trickles into, it's not just about the executive function or dysfunction in that case, it's, about not having regulated emotions or being exhausted. Like there's so many other ways that this plays into your life and we don't even realize it.
And that, and again, it's something that's not talked about often enough. I think there's, are more voices out there for this, the subject matter than there ever used to be, which is fantastic because women like us, course, are, moving the conversations forward. Thankfully, but there's still not enough conversations about them to normalize it all that like this, this all, you know, having proper stress management techniques means that it doesn't mean you don't get stressed. It means that you can move forward when that overwhelm kicks in.
at a faster rate than if you didn't have those techniques. So to your point of like, find what works for you. Everyone's gonna have different things that help them to reset when they're feeling that overwhelm. And for some, like maybe you need to like step away from whatever the situation is. literally walk away from it. Leave the room, leave the house, go for a walk, go for a drive, whatever clears your mind. For others, it might just be, I just need to go and lay down for a little while. Maybe you take a quick nap.
There were things that I think we've told ourselves like, can't take a nap in the middle of the day. I'm a professional. Screw that. I take naps all the time.
Shannyn Schroeder (32:56.622)
Because you're lazy if you do that. are lazy if you go and take a nap.
Shauna Lynn Simon (33:00.202)
No, and I've started talking so openly about my naps too. And people are like, like I was trying to call him like, yeah, no, I was taking a nap. Like middle of the day, if I have time in between appointments and I can take a nap, I don't always need a nap. But there were days when I'm like, you know, a nap is exactly what I would like right now. And I'm going to go take a little nap, snuggle with my kitty cats and go back to work 20 minutes later. I'm not ashamed of it in the slightest. In fact, I think it's what makes me more productive. It allows me to be able to show up fully present for the next client.
Shannyn Schroeder (33:27.224)
Absolutely. Because you've learned to listen to yourself. Even if you're not like tired, tired, you're like, I need a break and the break looks like I'm crawling underneath my weighted blanket and I'm going to snuggle. And you know, for other women, their break is going to be, I'm going to, you know, jam some really loud music and I'm going to dance for five minutes in my office. And they're going to talk themselves out of that because that's unprofessional. That's not how a business professional runs things. And that's because we've been told by
rich white men that that's what it's supposed to be. mean, ultimately that's what it is. Like how many different, you know, things we were like, oh, you know, to be really, you know, super professional and richest people on earth, you have to get up at 5 a.m. and you have to go take a nice cold shower and then you have to meditate and then I'm like, that's great. You're never gonna see me at 5 a.m. I am not a morning person.
Shauna Lynn Simon (34:19.181)
This is something I talk about actually quite frequently because I am the morning person. I used to be a total night owl. My alarm now goes off at 4.15 every single morning. Well, five days a week, I should say. I also still set a slightly later alarm, but not much later on Sundays. And I go for my morning run. And this is a part of what makes me happy, what gives me joy, which is also one of reasons why sometimes I need a nap in the afternoon because it's been a long day. By the time four o'clock is, I've been awake for 12 hours.
Shannyn Schroeder (34:48.023)
Yeah, the only way you're seeing me at 4 a.m. is if I'm pulling an all-nighter.
Shauna Lynn Simon (34:51.822)
And that's the funniest thing is that often I'm out on my morning run, I can tell someone's just coming home from the bar. But there's no judgment. I'm not telling other women that you need to get up at the same time that I do. And because so many people are like, I want to do what you're doing. Don't do what I'm doing. Figure what works for you. This is what works for me. And it gives me so much joy. My days go so much better on the days that I, if I sleep in, my days are always a little off kilter. just, it deregulates my whole system. Everything feels a little off if I miss my morning run.
And these are things that I just know about myself. this is, so this is how I choose to live my life. But I'm not saying that that's what's what makes sense for everyone. think the key is, like you said, we got to figure out what makes the most sense for us. Now, if you are someone who does like getting up early and you can't get a workout in, then maybe you do need to get up 30 minutes earlier to get that workout in. that, there's a big difference between that and telling someone who's not a morning person to go and get up before, yeah. Have to do.
Shannyn Schroeder (35:50.197)
Exactly. your rhythm of getting up at 4 a.m. to go do a run, that is what is considered acceptable. That's what you're told is the smart thing to do. But for most, think, neurodivergent people, their body clocks are not like that. Their body clocks are kind of more like teenagers. We're like, see me at 1 a.m. and I'm thriving, but don't bother me before 10 a.m.
Shauna Lynn Simon (35:51.286)
Right.
Shannyn Schroeder (36:19.294)
And because that but that's something that is seen as lazy. I'm sleeping until 10, that's because well, how could you possibly be productive? You know what? But I would venture to say, Shauna Lynn you're probably not awake at midnight.
Shauna Lynn Simon (36:32.898)
Definitely not. No. In fact, if you do not even want to try to catch me. So I'm usually in bed between eight and nine o'clock in the evening. And that goes for weekends as well. I will push it a little bit if I need to on weekends, but it's got to be a really good reason for me to stay up late, not just a random Saturday night, because it completely throws me off for the rest of the week. And you know ends up happening is I start, I lose the ability to properly form sentences after about 10 o'clock.
You don't even want to try to have a conversation with me. I will sound like I'm drunk because my brain just is like, listen, you can stay up, Shauna Lynn, but we're going to go to sleep in here.
Shannyn Schroeder (37:10.03)
Well, because at that point you've been up for 20 hours straight. And that's a lot. And it goes back to that, you know, what the outside world views as acceptable. But that's one of the great things about, you know, running your own business is that it doesn't matter what the rest of the world says is acceptable. You get to choose your hours. If your assistant is a 4 a.m., you know, girly, have at it. Make sure before you take off for the night, go ahead and have that list emailed to her.
And she should know not to bother you before 10 a.m. because it's not going to happen. You're the boss. You get to decide that. And I think that's why so many neurodivergent people are, you know, find themselves comfortable in the business world, like as entrepreneurs to be able to do their own thing because they have that flexibility. But then when they start, when they start delegating and wanting to hire people, then they kind of start to shrink back like, but I don't look like they're expecting me to look kind of thing. I'm like, own it.
because it does work for you. is who you are and it is a good thing. You Yeah. You're paying them. could work around your schedule.
Shauna Lynn Simon (38:16.654)
Exactly. I think that, you know, this is a really important thing. And I think this is actually a good place to kind of leave people with too, is the, can normalize it in our own head, but there's always going to be that societal pressure to adapt, to fit in, you know, whether we, again, we can talk about being authentic all we want, but not everyone feels as comfortable just doing that. So what's maybe some language we can give for these ladies who
are exactly that situation where, and we're using the example of wanting to sleep till 10 o'clock, but this can show up in numerous different ways. Maybe it's a matter of like, you can only work for an hour at a time and they need to take a two hour break. Maybe it's a matter of there were just certain tasks that you don't feel that you're best suited to do. And we don't wanna feel like we're coming up short here. We don't wanna feel that we're not all that we're supposed to be as the boss of the business.
What's maybe some language that we can arm these ladies with in terms of how to embrace that as opposed to working against it? Because I think that if you're just saying like, well, this is just how I am, that doesn't always feel as clean as it maybe it could when it comes.
Shannyn Schroeder (39:25.574)
And that's a hard thing to do. Like to just say, well, this is just the way I am. Like you have to be really comfortable and confident in owning that and being okay with whatever backlash you get. And I would, without a doubt, most women are not really okay with that. They don't want to deal with that backlash because of any number of reasons, right? So when you're looking at finding the ways and the systems that work for you, you really do have to reframe how you present it to other people.
So it's not, need to sleep until 10 a.m. It's my work day starts at 10 or at 10 or whatever time it is. And this is so I can be the most productive and effective, you know, CEO, designer, whatever. Like you just, you don't say it as like, I have to sleep in. It's like, this is when my day starts. And this is, and this is when I'm most productive. And it's just about reframing that language. No different than if you had a student
with an IEP, know, an individualized education plan because they were in the special ed program. They have accommodations. All you're doing as the boss of your own company is that you are creating your own accommodations. Right. And other people for sure aren't going to get it. I'm not going to lie to you and say, boy, just say it. it's going to be, no, they're absolutely going to talk garbage about you behind your back. She's a weird one, man. What's up with that?
Why is it that after she has a call, she closes herself in the office for an hour and a half? Because she's done peopling and now she's, you know, overstimulated and she needs to be away from people. Whether or not you choose to say that, doesn't matter. You just block out the time in your schedule. Like I had a call that lasted an hour. Now I'm off. Do not bother me for an hour. And you get to do that as a boss. If you're not the boss, that makes it a whole lot harder because then you are having to deal with other people and explain to them why you need the accommodations.
And what
Shauna Lynn Simon (41:19.382)
I love the term, I love the term the accommodations because I think that just it reframes it in our own mind as well that that's exactly what these are these are accommodations same type of accommodations that you would make. Let's say you had an employee working for you who
needed who couldn't see very well. So you're going to make them some accommodations to provide them with devices that are going to dictate things on the screen as opposed to making them read it. Maybe someone needs an ergonomically designed chair or whatever. Like you're going to make those accommodations. This is the same sort of accommodation. I don't mean to be comparing it.
literally to physical disabilities, because I'm not saying that this is a disability by any means, but it is an accommodation for the exceptions to the things. And I think also framing it with the, lean into the things you do really well, because you all know you do things really well. And why are we focusing on things that we don't do as well? So like, let's start with, if I've got a new employment, like, listen, here is where I'm going to absolutely shine. Let me tell you where you're not going to get the best out of me. And this is why you're here. This is why you're leaning on your team.
They want to feel as though they're not just an extension of you. They want to feel like they can own their own role. So let them know that like, listen, you're to get the best out of me if I don't start my day before 10 a.m. That means that in order for me to be best prepared for a 10 a.m. meeting, you're going to start at 8 a.m. and you're going to do X, Y, and Z before my 10 a.m. or whatever that looks like. again, make it so that they understand that they are a valuable part of this whole system to make the entire company run well and they get to fill in the gaps.
and you get to be your absolute best at the things that you're best at and they get to be their absolute best at the things that they're best at.
Shannyn Schroeder (42:57.902)
without a doubt. Yes. Always lean into the things that you're good at. And it's okay to own that and not brag on it, but like, yes, this is who I am. This is what I'm really good at. And this is what has gotten me where I am today. Cause it is the power of your unique brain that has gotten you where you are.
when you're at the point that you can start to offload those things that you dread and you're not good at, like it just opens up more time and space for you to do more of the things that you are good at, which will take you even further.
Shauna Lynn Simon (43:28.724)
Exactly. Exactly. And mean, and this is, this goes for anyone who's neurodivergent or not, that the more you lean into the things that you actually enjoy doing, the easier it actually is to do it because we end up procrastinating on the things that we don't want to do. So the more we can offload those items, the smoother things go. Trust me, every time I'm like, I find myself stuck on something like,
Better be offloading this one soon. Like it's my, it's my trigger too, because I'm going to be more productive if I don't have the things that is a five minute task, but took me 20 minutes to do it because I spent 15 minutes trying to figure out how to get out of doing it. Right.
Shannyn Schroeder (44:04.216)
Yes, always, always. So when you're looking at what you can be efficient at, yes, if you're doing something new for your business, you might want to run through it once or twice so that you know what it is, so that when you delegate it, you know that it's being done right kind of thing. But to be able to say, yeah, I know how to do this, but I don't ever want to do it. Because in that 20 minutes, you could have done two or three other things that would have been more productive and better for your business than kind of dragging out that one five minute test that took 20 minutes.
Shauna Lynn Simon (44:34.184)
So here is your official permission slipped for all you ladies listening to do exactly that. Lean into your strengths. I know we've said it before, but I think reframing it when talking about executive function especially helps to really kind of make it land for them. So if someone's listening to this episode today and they want to kind of start in one spot, like what's one takeaway that you hope they get nothing else out of today's episode? What are you hoping that they will take with them into the week?
Shannyn Schroeder (45:01.954)
The number one thing that I said to everybody is that you are not lazy, stupid or broken. Say that on repeat over and over and over again to shut out that really, really nasty voice in the back of your head that is always telling you don't do that because that's lazy. Don't do that. That makes you look stupid. Shut that voice up because you are not. You are brilliant and your brain as different as it is, is amazing. So if you walk away with nothing else, walk away with that message.
Shauna Lynn Simon (45:28.306)
Love it. Amazing. Shannyn, thank you so much for sharing all of this. I think that this is exactly what our listeners really needed to hear. And I really appreciate you joining us today.
Shannyn Schroeder (45:37.752)
Thank you so very much for having me. It's been a lot of fun.
Shauna Lynn Simon (45:40.334)
Yes, definitely. And as I mentioned, I'm going to make sure to put that bottleneck quiz in the show notes as well. As always, all of our resources are always available in the show notes. And if today's episode has resonated with you, then I hope that you will continue to tune in with us each week. We drop new episodes every Tuesday morning at 7 a.m. Eastern time. And please allow us to continue to be a part of your journey. Don't forget to leave us review or subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast. And remember, the best way that you can support not only this podcast.
but also your fellow women entrepreneurs is share this episode. I guarantee every person listening to this right now, you have got someone in your brain that you're thinking like, that sounds exactly like this person. Send this episode to them. They're gonna thank you for it. And of course we would appreciate it as well. Until next time everyone, keep thriving.