This transcript was auto-generated and may contain errors in spelling or inaccuracies in the spoken words.
Shauna Lynn Simon (01:50.498)
Welcome to the Real Women Real Business Podcast. I am your host, Shauna Lynn Simon. And today our guest is Heather Dominick, who's been self-employed for more than 20 years. But since 2010, she's been training highly sensitive entrepreneurs and leaders to work less while making more impact and more income. Before building her business, she spent six years as a high school drama and English teacher in New York City. And she started her company in 2003 in the middle of a personal bankruptcy.
It wasn't until she hit burnout that she learned she was a highly sensitive person, also known as an HSP. And that changed how she approached everything. Today, Heather is the founder of Business Miracles and the creator of the Highly Sensitive Leadership Training Program, where she and her coach team help highly sensitive people to build businesses and careers that fit their nature.
She holds a master's degree in educational theater from NYU, is the author of different and has been featured in HuffPost, Business Insider, and on Lifetime. So, Heather, welcome so much to the show.
Thank you, Shauna Lynn. What a great introduction. Thank you so much.
Really excited to have you here. You and I had met previously. We were introduced by a mutual contact. You thought, you know, these ladies have a whole lot in common in terms of their philosophies and how they approach things. And we had a conversation and we both agreed like, yes, this is definitely something that really connects for both of us. So we're both very passionate about. And so I really wanted to have you on the show because something but what you're doing, not only does it align so much with some of the philosophies that we've already discussed on this show.
Shauna Lynn Simon (03:25.944)
But you specifically are targeting a type of personality, a type of individual that I had really never understood or heard of. So I really want to get into that. But before we get to that, let's go back to before starting your business in 2003, you're in the middle of a personal bankruptcy. And I don't mean to laugh as I'm saying this, but most people are not looking up and saying, like, hey, I should probably start a business.
I know. So crazy.
What made you take that leap at that point in your life?
Yes, well, all these years later, I can really confidently look back, and especially this year of all years because of the anniversary. I can look back and I can really confidently say it was because of 9/11. So I live in New York City and I lived in New York City on 9/11. I lived barely a mile from ground zero. And that week I had actually started a new job.
at a new public high school that was, you know, an easy walk from my apartment and in the village. And everything on that day just really changed. I know it did for so many people, of course, with so many people have stories. And for those of us who were in the city and stayed in the city, because a lot of people did not stay in the city understandably. Yet for those of us who did, there was this real
Heather Dominick (04:54.082)
I don't know, like just a sense of whatever it is that you are wanting to do, do it. Because we don't have the time that we think that we have. And so it was really truly like under the fog of that. And I use that word intentionally, you know, because it was a very foggy time. And I also use that word because
We're not saying it was the best decision, but you know, there wasn't a lot of room for like just real, you know, I guess rational analysis paralysis. And so I took the leap and here we are.
I'm so glad that you did take that leap. And what a powerful story for how you got there. And I think that you're so right. I didn't live in New York at the time, but like anyone who lived through that time, especially anyone who was already an adult when that happened, your perspective on it, your memory of it, it's vivid. It's like it was yesterday. And it was.
legitimately life-changing. You don't just remember that day. You remember that day and the days following and the weeks following and the months following. It wasn't a single moment in time. But I think that similarly, so many of us have stories about grabbing onto something during that time. We just wanted to hold on to something, whatever that was. And some people might have said, like, I'm just going to stick with the status quo because that's safe and that's what I know. And that's
familiar and that gives comfort. So you chose to go in a direction that was a little bit more uncomfortable. But I think every entrepreneur that I speak to has some sort of story about, well, this just sort of happened. Like we would all love to say that we planned it out perfectly and had this big, beautiful idea that we nurtured for years before making the leap. And the reality is that you kind of gotta do it scared a lot of times. Like you hear that phrase and it's so incredibly true. And that's exactly what you did.
Heather Dominick (06:57.292)
Yeah, for sure, for sure. And I so appreciate you saying, like, you know, could have stayed in what was comfortable. And I appreciate that because there honestly there wasn't much that was comfortable at that time, including my personal bankruptcy was tied directly to 9/11 because starting that new job a week prior, I had left this another kind of leap, but I had left like a very high paying teaching job to take a lower
paying teaching job. And I took that lower paying teaching job because I, for a lot of different reasons, I won't go into, but from a financial standpoint, I set up a lot of after school work to kind of piece together additional work that would help me get close to that former salary. And all of that work disappeared overnight. Like there, it was gone. ⁓ there was, there were no after-school programs.
There were, you know, arts and education funds just shut down. And it was literally like the city went still. And so I remember actually, I mean, I will always remember, you know, having to go before the judge to declare bankruptcy, and that was downtown. And that was, I don't know, probably maybe like 2002, maybe tipping into 2003.
And I had not been downtown. Like it was literally where I had to declare bankruptcy, was just blocks from where the World Trade Center used to stand. And I remember just like almost like having like a panic attack, like traveling down to just kind of have to walk into that destruction and you know, basically like reclaim my life. So
Yeah, when you're already dealing with something that is life-changing, and then you're also facing another life-changing moment as you're doing it. I mean, I can't imagine. And know for people who are listening to this, and maybe they weren't an adult at the time of 9/11, maybe they weren't even born at the time of 9/11. But the closest association would be COVID, where COVID changed the rules on things. And all of a sudden, things that you were allowed to do literally from one day to the next, you couldn't do them anymore. And there were certain rules and regulations, whether you agreed with them or not.
Shauna Lynn Simon (09:16.058)
Not up for debate here. The reality is that the world changed and your interactions with other people changed significantly. And so the point is that you might not have another 9/11. I mean, obviously we all hope and pray that that doesn't happen. But even if we don't have another 9/11 or another pandemic.
There's always going to be something that can potentially happen out there that can change the course and the direction of your life. And sometimes those are the best times to make the changes that
Exactly. Exactly. So that's really about a catalyst, right? Whatever that might be. And this is a big one.
Definitely not a small one.
It definitely moved me in a different direction and you know, I very likely could not be where I am now without it. So
Shauna Lynn Simon (10:04.376)
We're definitely glad that you are where you are. So on that note, you know, you didn't know that you were highly sensitive when you started. You just you've described looking around at conferences where everyone seemed to be having just the time of their lives. Well, you felt like you were drowning. Explain that feeling to us. Tell us what that looked like and what was happening in your business at that time.
Well, one of the things that I've definitely learned about being a highly sensitive person since and just the highly sensitive nature in general is that we often feel othered and it feels very secretive and it feels very shameful. There's typically an inner dialogue of some sort that sounds like, What is wrong with me? Like, why can't I just do
what it looks like everybody else can do. And why am I not having the time of my life in the ways that other people seem to be having the time of their life? And that is what it felt like to be at those conferences. And yet my determination and drive for all the reasons that we just talked about to have this self-employed thing work kept me in the room.
Right. And so it was painful. It was uncomfortable. and many times it was downright terrifying. And I just always kept coming back to the choice like, what do I want more? What do I want more? And it's like, yes, I love the idea of going back to my hotel room and getting under the comforter and ordering room service and turning on HBO or whatever. And I want to make this business happen.
And so that's what kept me there.
Shauna Lynn Simon (11:51.65)
There is a lot more talk on the internet. And I will admit since our conversation, I've seen a lot more online about being highly sensitive. It's, you know, kind of all over social media. But from my conversation with you, I know that what I see out there isn't always being portrayed accurately. So for someone hearing it for the first time, what
Does it mean to be a highly sensitive person? And what maybe doesn't it mean? Because there I'm sure there's people who are listening to this who are identifying right away, saying, like, raising their hands being like, Yes, I am definitely highly sensitive. And other people who are like, I hadn't realized there was a term for this, but this sounds like it could be me. So tell me a little bit about what we should know about what a highly sensitive person or HSP is and isn't.
For sure, with the intent to keep it as just basic as possible. Right. So a highly sensitive person is a person who has a personality characteristic. And the personality characteristic is defined by the wiring of the nervous system. And the wiring of the nervous system is wired to take in stimulation.
Heather Dominick (13:56.512)
at a higher degree than someone who is not highly sensitive. That stimulation could be anything from sight, sound, smell, touch, and also information. And the research, because this is research back, the research shows that there are 20% of us in the world who are born highly sensitive. Wow.
Yes. So it's a really valuable statistic for two very distinct reasons. One is it really explains that experience of feeling othered because it's stacked two to eight and you're born this way. So it's not something that happens to you. I always like to say your parents didn't do it to you and you didn't pick it up on the playground. Or it's not because of that weird drink you had in college. Right?
Or what it what effects it had on you, but that wasn't one of them.
or something worse. Right. But it's not that. It is literally like this is you. This is how you came into the world. You are wired this way. And you are wired this way on purpose.
And so, okay, that has me wondering then for someone who's born this way, can they develop certain tools, coping mechanisms? Can they retrain their brains? I know that we can't necessarily like fully rewire it, but you know, it there's a lot of things out there. I know neurolinguistic programming, for example, like are there ways that they can actually retrain themselves to not be a highly sensitive person? Is it matter of adapting and living with it?
Shauna Lynn Simon (15:34.796)
And in some cases, maybe that's the case, but is there also an opportunity potentially to change it?
Gosh, what a great question. So, yes and no. So, yes, you can absolutely retrain the way that your nervous system responds to that sense of overstimulation. And that is everything that we do in the highly sensitive leadership training program as pertaining to business, leadership,
life, success and it is not curable.
So those two things can exist at the same time. Got it. Okay.
Yeah.
Heather Dominick (16:19.782)
You will never be part of the 80%. you just won't. And again, you can create a different relationship for lack of a better way of saying it with your nervous system. So it really works for you rather than against you.
Okay. So this also makes sense with something else that you and I had talked about. And it's something that I've covered on this show. Previously, I talked about it with almost all of my clients. Just had a coaching call recently with my community where one of the women on the call was talking about they say I'm supposed to do this. I love when I get the they say. Like who's they? First of all. And they are usually.
An actual specific person, an actual specific name of webinar they attended, a workshop they were a part of, a book that they read or whatever. And listen, I consume all of these things as well. I love consuming different people's frameworks and philosophies, theories, and approaches to life, business, and everything else beyond that. But many of our listeners are what I love to affectionately refer to as our Accidental CEOs. And they are really good at their craft, but they were never trained on how to run a business.
And so they do tend to learn from whatever formulas they find online. And then they come to me and they're like, but I tried, like they said I should do this and I did it and it didn't work. And I don't understand why it didn't work. And don't get me wrong, I'm someone who teaches various frameworks to my clients as well, but in a way that they can adapt it to who they are. It's not a one size fits all necessarily. So why is it that these
standard formulas land so differently for a highly sensitive entrepreneur. Because you've mentioned it that like you don't really fit into that box as nicely. And you know, trying to perform someone else's framework just falls short. So why is that?
Heather Dominick (18:09.75)
Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. I love this. And it's definitely one of the things that when you and I first connected, right? Like we just really share that aspect regarding the people that we serve. So, you know, for highly sensitives who are attracted to being self-employed or in a leadership position, it really goes back to that 20/80, right? So the 20% of the population and that wiring of the nervous system.
Impacts how you process the world. So then therefore it impacts how you do everything. And if the majority of you know marketing, selling, train, business training out there is understandably designed for someone who is of the 80%, then when you go to try to use it.
As a highly sensitive, it likely is going to feel very unnatural and then therefore just less enjoyable, right? Right. And then therefore less motivating to continue to try it and work with it. That's really kind of like the first layer. The second layer is that when a highly sensitive person, this is in my experience,
Right, this is just practicum research from one, being self-employed myself since 2003, as you mentioned earlier, two, supporting others since 2010. ⁓ I've seen a lot, I've experienced a lot from the practicum research. Is that the second layer that's brought to the mismatch is typically years and years.
Of being untrained, that's the simplistic way that I like to say it, being untrained as a highly sensitive. Most of us in a certain age demographic, but I would say honestly, like even those who are under 25 typically are not taught how to work with their nervous system as a person who's highly sensitive. So with that.
Heather Dominick (20:26.35)
comes all of that experience as I mentioned earlier of feeling othered. So then triggers start to layer upon layer upon layer, which is like I should be able to do this. Why can't I do this? I'm gonna beat myself up about this. my gosh, I've really pushed my way through this. I'm gonna hide this. I'm like I'm never this is gonna and then it just piles on and compounds into that highly sensitive visceral overwhelm. So you're literally starting
starting ⁓ at a different starting line and then you're like literally slowing down the race because of everything you're dragging with you on the path or the track if you
Well, can only imagine just how frustrating this is. It's almost like, the best reference that I can think of is I'm left-handed. I'm in my late 40s, and left-handedness was allowed when I was born, but it wasn't not that long before I was born. And so for someone who was born left-handed.
Predating me, they were forced and almost shamed into using their right hand, whether it felt natural or not. And I can imagine that like these voices inside the head of the highly sensitive people, where the voices are saying, like, why can't you just and you should just do this, et cetera? Those voices are actually not necessarily their own voices. Those voices are potentially other people that have been saying these things to them from a young age, even.
Not necessarily in a shaming way, not just not necessarily trying to hurt them, but just in you just gotta do it like this, and you just do this. And that ⁓ that casual, ⁓ it's easy, just do this. And when everyone else seems to be getting it naturally and easily, and then you try to fit into that box and it feels like you're writing with the opposite hand than you should be, basically. Like it feels unnatural. Yeah.
Heather Dominick (22:19.096)
Such a great analogy. And as someone whose dad is left-handed, my gosh, how many times have I heard because it was not okay for him, right? it's like it's just this ⁓ repeated story, right? Of so awful, and I was never allowed to write with my left hand, and it just sits there. So it's a great analogy because it it does just so clearly show.
It's not okay, no.
Heather Dominick (22:48.12)
how that programming becomes ingrained. Right.
Absolutely, yeah. And even for someone like myself. So just using that analogy a little bit further, for someone like myself who again, it was allowed, it wasn't celebrated. ⁓ nowadays, there's whole left-handed stores and there's left-handed tools. And ⁓ I actually love so I do interior design as well. And I'll go out to a client and I'll go with my measuring tape. I have a left-handed measuring tape. And a right-handed person is like, What do you mean? What's the difference? And they go to open it, everything's upside down. Like, yeah, the way that you open it.
Is the opposite to like to how I would open it. And so when I open it, it's right side up. But the tools didn't exist. So I had to learn how to use scissors with my right hand. Yes, I was allowed to write with my left hand, but there were so many other things that I had to learn another way, still because it wasn't embraced. So this is again like just to take this analogy a little bit further, a highly sensitive person.
is being told one thing but they're still trying to learn these formulas and these frameworks that don't fit them, that fit somebody else. Feel free to use that one going forward. Yeah, you can have it.
Totally gonna use that. It's so good, especially because like I'm constantly talking about, you know, in the highly sensitive leadership training program, like it is the tools. So like we are providing like the version of the left-handed measuring tape. So good. Yes, that's exactly right.
Shauna Lynn Simon (24:10.282)
Yeah. Okay, so let's give some tools then because you actually talk about the three coping mechanisms that end up showing up for highly sensitive entrepreneurs. Can you walk us through each of these and you know kind of what these actually look like?
Yes, for sure. And it's a beautiful segue because it really connects to, you know, literally ways that as a highly sensitive person you you find to survive, right? In a world that again is typically not designed for you. So I do always like to preface by like the coping mechanisms as I begin to talk about them aren't bad, right? They really worked for us and have
Helped us in all the ways that we needed to feel safe, you know, feel a sense of self, and that we are looking to shift out of those coping mechanisms as part of being an HSP in business and leadership to go beyond the coping. That said, there's three coping mechanisms that I've identified through my work. There's the pushing coping mechanism, the hiding coping mechanism, and the combo platter
Coping mechanism. Now, these are coping mechanisms, which literally, as they say, you most likely developed unconsciously as a way to cope as a 20%er in a world of 80%ers. So the pushing coping mechanism, a pusher, and I will first out myself as a recovering pusher, you will find a way to get done what an 80%er gets done.
You will do it. And because you are working against your nature, it will typically come at a high cost for you. It will come in the form of major physical distress, ailments, deep sickness, illness. I've definitely experienced myself. It will also come in the cost of relationship issues and often financial issues. We already know my story.
Heather Dominick (26:21.206)
Two out of three. and I can honestly say three out of three until I kind of like got myself together through so much of the work that I teach. The hiding coping mechanism is a tendency to put up some type of protective barrier to prevent oneself from going to that overwhelm, visceral overwhelm place.
That again, the pusher will drive through. The hider works to protect. It tends to be very insiduous because the hider often looks like they're really doing all that needs to be done. So in the sphere of entrepreneurialism, I'll usually say that the hider has a beautiful website. The hider's social media channels.
Gorgeous. The hider has created an incredible program, like down to the detail with the most like beautiful like handouts and client platform, and yet no clients, low clients, not able to meet their bottom line needs.
The combo platter, I like to describe as the HSP definition of insanity because the combo platter will literally flip-flop back and forth between pushing and hiding and pushing and hiding and pushing and hiding. So they have this extreme experience of exerting a lot of effort and a lot of energy, and the needle is just not moving.
And again, all three as a way to just try to manage oneself. And especially if you didn't know or don't know that you're highly sensitive, or even if you do haven't really been supported and how to work with it. So again, nothing wrong with any of those three. And if we're looking for HSP business leadership success, we want to learn how to go beyond coping and into.
Heather Dominick (28:36.576)
a beautiful space that's available for us as highly sensitives, which is a creative space. That's where we're aiming
Yeah, and I mean we say this often on the show, you know, because a lot of our listeners are creatives. They're navigating various things, whether it's neurodivergence or other elements that make them unique. And as unique as we are, it doesn't it means that there isn't a one size fits all, but there are tools available available.
to allow you to be able to adapt things to yourself. And I think one of the biggest things that, you know, we often talk about is kind of like looking inward and trusting yourself, which is something that is incredibly hard for someone who has developed coping mechanisms for so many years to actually look inward and say like, okay, what's really going on here? What can I really do? And one thing that you talk about, you know, in terms of like moving from some of that confusion that they're facing to getting some of that clarity is trusting their intuition.
And I know I'm gonna get pushback on this idea because so many of my listeners they say to me all the time, like you often say on your show to just trust your gut and trust your intuition. And my gut and intuition is telling me to do 16 different things right now. So how am I trusting it? So what does this look like? How does someone move from being a highly sensitive person? And we've already acknowledged that we're not trying to
take that part away from them, but how do they feel confident and comfortable in trusting their intuition? What does this look like for someone who's gonna be a bit more skeptical listening to this? How do we put their mind at ease on this one?
Heather Dominick (30:05.216)
Yes, I love it. I love it. Yeah, it's such a great question. And you know, the very simplistic answer is that it's a learned skill. So, you know, in the same way that you can't, you know, be told as a highly sensitive person, well, just go do that, right? That can be translated to like, well, you know, just trust your intuition. Because what I hear in your example is someone is responding back to you and saying, like
Well, but my intuition is telling me to do sixteen other things, right? Sixteen things. And what I'm hearing is that's actually not your intuition.
Okay.
That's actually learned behavior and it's part of the coping mechanism, right? And if we like really listen, you know, if you really deeply listen, you can start to hear like, well, 16 things, right, is either the pusher is gonna push through and it's gonna do those 16 things and it's gonna come at a high cost. The hider is gonna get overwhelmed by those 16 things and be like, Well, I can't do those 16 things. So
I better just not do really anything. And the combo platter will like get up one day and will charge to like get you know those eight out of the 16 done, and then the next day we'll be in bed for like the next two to three weeks. So intuition is a learned skill. And it's a beautiful question and beautiful timing because earlier today I was actually starting to prepare for one of our upcoming intuitive planning days.
Heather Dominick (31:41.186)
Which is a process that I teach and have for gosh, almost going on 10 years now. And we do it every four months in the Business Miracles community as part of the Highly Sensitive Leadership Training Program. And it is part of that rewiring process. And then through intuitive planning, as part of the program.
you are actually engaging in weekly intuitive planning. So this is to say, right, it is a process, right? It is a learned skill to first and foremost to connect into your intuition. And we could probably do a whole podcast on what does that actually mean? Right. But to connect in with your intuition, to let that intuition guide you.
into creating a four-month plan and then what it means to work that every single week, right? And so then there as you do that with the is similar to you know any building of any muscle or any skill, it does strengthen over time. And then you are able to begin to more skillfully discern
this is intuition and this is fear. And that's driving my coping tendency and then how to really differentiate between the two and then start to make decisions differently.
Well, I think this would be something that for even if someone's not identifying as a highly sensitive person, that this should be landing for you. If you're listening to this, despite like whether or not you you feel like you identify as as an HSP, the point of this is every skill is a process. It is something that we practice over time. It's the same thing, like what I one of the things that I teach is my power play profit filter that helps people to be able to identify which
Shauna Lynn Simon (33:43.29)
line items, task items on the to-do list actually merit their attention because it's so easy for us to get pulled into the noise. And even I'm guilty of it. I'll admit just in the last few days I've been pulled into client conversations and client work while ignoring other things that were really important on my to-do list. And I'm not saying that the client work is not important, but I let it derail my schedule in a way that I normally don't do. And it's because I've lost sight of my power play profit filter a little bit. So it's something that I have my clients, you know, do
On a consistent basis, revisit it. It's not a do this exercise, put it in a notebook, forget about it, and never look at it again. It's something that we need to make sure that we are revisiting on a continuous basis. And this is what highly successful people do. They are revisiting the same frameworks, the same logics, the same frameworks, whatever is working for them, they are continually revisiting it and repeating it. Because when you find something,
That connects despite the muscle memory that you build, the only way you maintain it is to keep doing it. I was injured in the summertime. I'm a runner. I was injured in the summertime, kept running, but had to reduce the frequency of my runs and the distance of my runs significantly. And meanwhile, I had a half marathon coming up. So when I went to do the half marathon, which for anyone who doesn't know, it's 21.1 kilometers. Heading into the half marathon, I had not run more than eight kilometers in two months. But in my head, I was like, but.
Before my injury, I was running 20, 25 kilometers on an average Sunday run, no problem. I was running, 40, 50 kilometers a week. I can certainly do a half marathon, even though I've only run a maximum of eight kilometers for the two months leading up to it. But my muscle memory had changed in that time. And so, as much as in my brain was fully capable of running the half marathon, my body was like,
Can we talk about this for a second? Because I'm not entirely on board with this. Don't get me wrong, I did it. It wasn't in my best time, it wasn't my best form. But the point is though, that something that I have been literally doing for years, my body knows how to do it. If I take even a week or two off of running, which I don't do very often, but if I do, it takes me a few days to get back into it. Now, obviously, the more frequently we're doing this, the easier it is to get back into it when we slip on things.
Shauna Lynn Simon (36:02.978)
But that's with anything in life. Like this has to be something that we are continually practicing. There isn't a, well, once you figure it out, you're good. Like you have to continue to revisit it. And I think that's something we often forget as business owners. We're like, I learned this thing, check and push it aside. Like in school, you had to learn certain courses. You learn them, you never think about them again. In life and in business, we need to make sure that those tools that we're using that are allowing us to be able to succeed and to be able to perform at our best.
We need to make sure that we're keeping those at the forefront at all times.
Yes. my gosh, so well said. You know, I always say like business is not linear, right? But like you said, that's the way that we were all educated. So that's also ingrained in us. But I also love your running analogy because I feel like you can also flip that, right? Which is that if we go back to talking about intuition, highly sensitives do tend to have an intuitive strength.
Which literally just physiologically makes sense, right? The nervous system is more open, right? It's taking in a higher degree of stimulation. So that does mean that you are taking in all of this different levels of stimuli that can inform how you are able to bypass just the logical intellectual working of the head brain.
And intuitives, we- excuse me, "intuitives," haha. HSPs, we feel things more deeply. That's another one of our strengths. Yet the way that most highly sensitives have been using that deep feeling and have been experiencing that deep feeling is from more of the shadow side. And
Heather Dominick (37:55.842)
part of the coping mechanisms, right? And so again, the opposite of your running story is that you've spent years and years as a highly sensitive feeling things deeply from a protective standpoint, calling that your intuition. So that then when you step into training to really be able to harness and hone your intuition to expand you, it feels weird.
It feels odd, right? And so you have to go through this period of like, like what I've defined as intuition, like has that actually really been an intuition that's pulling me forward in a positive, expansive way? Or is it something that I've just become familiar with as a way of protecting myself? Right. So again, I love that running analysis.
It's a beautiful example.
Well, it's always top of mind because when I'm dealing with injuries, but I use the physio example often too, when we have physio, when we've injured ourselves, you're doing physio exercises. And for me, it was really easy to keep doing my physio exercises as annoying as they were. I was in pain. I was gonna do everything to stop them. The second I started healing, it's easy to forget to do my physio exercises. And meanwhile, those are great to do all the time. They're going to keep me from getting injured again.
Yes, yes. Yes, that repetition is so key. It really is. Yeah, it's just built into the structure of the leadership training program for the exact reason that you're saying. And isn't it so interesting? I love that you use physio so often because ⁓ the body will get our attention, right? And yet, I mean, literally, like we're all smart people. We know you can't just, you know, walk into a gym or go to a yoga class one time and then you're like,
Heather Dominick (39:54.69)
Jennifer Anniston body, fabulous. This is great. A P.ball. I only need to buy all the equipment. And there I am. No, we all know that's not how it works. So why do we think that if we read one book, go to take one course, then we should just be able to have an ongoing, solid, steady, sustainable income generating business? Why? Why do we do that? It's fascinating.
That is really fascinating when you say it like that because it logically, and I'm not even gonna say it's because we're lazy or anything like that, because I hate that term, but it is I think an element of we're just like, okay, well, I did the thing, and I just want to check the box that I did the thing. But if there's one thing that I've learned is that when something is working, you keep doing it because there's a reason why.
It worked and you know, let's do the things that keep working. So it's also retraining your mind to accept that. Something clicks to keep up.
Yeah.
And I do actually have the answer to my own question. I actually did just teach a training on this. So I'll just quickly say, like, it is just shown from research, right, that you know, human nature, highly sensitive or not, we are creatures of comfort, we are creatures of habit. And there's three things that keep us from actually actualizing change: cognitive dissonance, environment, and fear-based mindset.
Heather Dominick (41:21.176)
So those all three need to be addressed, right? Again, highly sensitive or not, to really be able to step out of all the ways that you've done what you've done up until now.
Which makes sense. And I think we all know that the way that we're built is a lot more complex than I think we sometimes give it credit for. And, you know, there's a lot of jokes, you know, like I'm a Gen Xer, for example, and we have to talk about how like Gen Xers just literally survived like these dangerous playgrounds. We can do anything. And you know, you kind of get this mentality of like, I've made it this.
Yeah.
It is wild. no cell phones. We just leave the house. We know that we know to come back when the street lights are on. Parents don't know where we are. They just trust into the world. it was a whole different time, let me tell you. You go to the playground and there are these these metal death traps basically. You go down the slide, you're guaranteed to burn your skin on it because it was made of metal, and that seemed like a good idea in the hot sun. But I mean all these things. So like so it's easy, but in business, those same thing where you're like, I've done all these things. I've made it this far. I've done I've done all this stuff. And you know, there's the
old saying what got you here won't get you there either again we've developed coping mechanisms we sure you've made it here you got here but is it sustainable and I know we've been talking for a while and I and I want to be respectful of our listeners' time but before we sign off I do want to touch just quickly on one thing that this brings me to and that is the word burnout we have avoided using for the most part in today's whole conversation. The reason is that it's a word that most people have a tendency to you know
Shauna Lynn Simon (42:53.42)
Tune out. Like they don't think they're burnt out until they're far past being burnt out. Yeah. And so for a highly sensitive entrepreneur, what are maybe some early signs that they should be paying attention to? Because I think this is the key, is that we think we're immune to it until our bodies check us, basically. Like, actually, let me just throw this at you. So, what are some things that we should be paying attention to before they become more serious?
Yes, yes, for sure. Well again, it really goes back to for highly sensitives, it goes back to those coping mechanisms. And there's twelve shadow states that I've identified that tend to drive those coping mechanisms. So I'll just speak briefly to
We've only got a few minutes here.
I'll speak briefly to three that really match and connect so there's overwhelm right and that can be difficult because overwhelm is overused in the same way that burnout is overused however for a highly sensitive person overwhelm is not a major too long to-do list it is a visceral experience within your body so if you are having experiences where your mind starts to go a little fuzzy
Where you're not able to actually access words, especially under pressure. If you find that you have significant digestive issues or any other type of sickness that can tend to take you out right at a critical moment before a major presentation, when enrolling a client, hiring a first team member.
Heather Dominick (44:34.988)
You want to start to pay attention to the body. And I'm speaking to this because we've already had this, you know, awesome physio part of the conversation in a way where you don't use it as an excuse. Right. So the pusher is gonna feel those types of physiological symptoms and is gonna try to ignore them and just drive through.
The hider is like almost potentially going to panic, right? And need to cancel everything and pull back. And again, though that combo platter is gonna flip-flop. So the invitation here is you know, listen. Use your highly sensitive strength of listening deeply to begin to listen more deeply to yourself, just as a signal. It's like even if you just clock it as a signal, the change will begin to happen.
The other two shadows I'll just briefly speak to are over-responsibility, which tends to connect to the pusher, which is that because you as a highly sensitive person typically can intuit and feel what others around you are feeling, including what they want and what they need, the pusher will tend to believe that because I can feel that I am responsible for fixing it.
And then overprotection, which again is typically connected to the hydro coping mechanism, which is that tendency to build that barrier wall. So if again you find yourself very busy but actually not paying attention to the tasks that are going to support you in having the results that you say that you want, all just signals. And if we can just start with being like, wait, just because I know that my
colleague wants a coffee doesn't mean that I have to get that coffee for her or my gosh, wow, I am really not talking to clients even though I have this incredible program ready for people.
Shauna Lynn Simon (46:37.275)
every day 'cause I we'd miss you busy being for being productive. Yeah.
Or again, if you're starting to feel any of those similar types of nervous system, physiological overwhelm, just use them all as signals to start to pay attention and just even to pause and just be like, hey, what's going on here? That's a good very, very first baby step to starting to intercept that, you know, that downward spiral.
Yeah, sort of disrupting some of the patterns and having a conversation with yourself. Yeah.
That awareness, it's the first step to true change, truly. And then, of course, we have to do something beyond that. But that first step is so key. We have to take it first.
step. The first step in every program is acknowledging what's actually happening. I mean the term is usually like first the first step is acknowledging that you have a problem because it comes from of course the AA program and it's something that's quoted often. I don't like referring to it as a problem, but it's the same sort of philosophy. Like the first step is building that awareness and acknowledging that something else is going on here and that you could use some support with it. So if someone is is listening to this and they're recognizing
Heather Dominick (47:46.828)
Yes, yes, yes.
Shauna Lynn Simon (47:52.044)
themselves in this conversation for the first time, where should she start? What is the best way for someone to maybe first of all learn whether or not they are a highly sensitive person and then take that step to getting some of the training that could support them as an entrepreneur?
Yes, for sure. So I have a free quiz. It's really an assessment on my website. It's based off of Dr. Elaine Aron's assessment. I worked with her on this. So it's an assessment to help you understand if you're a highly sensitive person. And what's available on my website is am I a highly sensitive person who is also meant to be self employed andor in a leadership.
Position. It doesn't give you a yes or no, but it helps you to discern where you are on the sensitivity scale. So when you take the assessment, you'll find out if you are somewhat of a highly sensitive, if you're a super highly sensitive, or if you're like me, you're a super uber highly sensitive.
And depending on which of those three you slot into, then you'll receive a free guide that will give you further steps to start to work with. Be like, yes, wow, this is something. And wow, I can begin to do things a bit differently when it comes to my business or leadership. And that is at hsequiz.com.
And you know, what we were just talking about about awareness being the first step, it really is so powerful. So to be able to feel seen, to be able to feel validated, like someone else is understanding you, taking this assessment can help to give you that first step to see where you're at, you know, and then you can sit with that.
Shauna Lynn Simon (49:40.714)
For a moment, if you need to, but it's so much easier to get the support that you need and find the resources that you need once you can identify what's been happening. So if you feel as though this is resonating with you, this sounds like something that could apply to you, it sounds like you've been, you know, dealing with these coping mechanisms that we've outlined today, and this is hitting home. This is the best first step for you to take. So now that you know what it is, you have a resource to help you to get the tools that you actually need. So definitely take it.
advantage of it. So thank you so much for creating that assessment in the first place and for sharing it with our audience. So if someone is listening to this episode and we covered a lot of things today, but they're identifying, I mean, let's say whether they are or are not a highly sensitive person, what's one sort of takeaway from the things that we talked about today that you hope that they can take with them and really put to use in their own life and their own business this week?
There is not just one way to create results.
Amazing. That is perfect way to end this as well because it is so true. And, you know, I'm not saying to give up every framework you've ever been taught, but let's revisit some of these frameworks and look at them through a different lens of what if I didn't do it exactly.
this way. Yes. You know, because you are unique. Your business is unique. And that's what your clients want and deserve from you. So how do we embrace that as opposed to trying to work against it? Heather, I cannot thank you enough for joining me today. I'm so glad that we connected. I'm so glad that you're able to join the show. So thank you. Thank you.
Heather Dominick (51:14.136)
Thank you, Shauna Lynn. This was an amazing conversation. I enjoyed every single moment. Thank you, thank you.
Same, it was such a good conversation. I know that we went over our time, but if you're still listening to this episode, we thank you for sticking it out through this entire show. And if what we're saying today is resonating with you, I do hope that you will. Please subscribe to us on your favorite podcast platform so you make sure that you get notified every time a new episode drops.
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