Ep 89 Transcript: Why Rebranding Isn’t Starting Over but Stepping Into Your Next Level with Puja Malhotra

This transcript was auto-generated and may contain errors in spelling or inaccuracies in the spoken words.

Shauna Lynn Simon (00:02)

Hello and welcome to the Real Women Real Business Podcast. I am your host, Shauna Lynn Simon. And if you've ever felt attached to your branding, especially if it is a DIY, you did it yourself kind of branding and you're feeling guilty maybe about wanting something better or maybe you've wondered if a rebrand is really worth the investment of it or maybe you're just scared of what is this investment going to look like and not just financially but time? What is it? What all is involved in this? This conversation today is really going to hit home for you because today's guest

Puja Malhotra is the founder and creative director of Roop Creative Agency, a boutique branding and web design studio. She's got over 15 years of experience in branding and marketing and has worked with hundreds of entrepreneurs across North America to create brands and websites that don't just look beautiful, but they're built to scale your business with clarity and purpose. And she's also the creator of Corporate Dropout, which we're going to touch on a little bit as well. She's created this mentorship program.

that helps designers like herself and creatives like herself to build profitable agencies of their own. So today we're to be talking about the emotional side of rebranding and what rebranding looks like. I've talked about branding on this show. I don't even know how many times and I've touched on rebranding very lately as and I always say do it sooner than later because it doesn't get any cheaper the longer you wait.

But I'm so excited to actually dig into this today with Puja . So Puja , welcome to the Real Women Real Business podcast. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here. I am so excited to get into this. Now, before we get into the rebranding side of things, let's talk a little bit about where you're coming from, because you've been in marketing for a number of years. You started your own agency back in 2016. That's Roop Creative. What was that leap like for you? What was that transition like from corporate to entrepreneurship?

⁓ I think I was a little delusional. That helped. ⁓ looking back at it, I'm like, wow, I took a big risk at the time that I did, but, ⁓ looking back at it, I just, felt like nothing could stop me. Like I needed to do this right now. And it's, there is a feeling of wanting to be ready, but that moment doesn't come until you just like switch. I actually, yeah, I actually, yeah. Blissful. ⁓

I don't know, resilience or invincibility. think that's the word that that blissful ignorance of invincibility is like the best cloak you can wear going into entrepreneurship. Yes. And, you know, I just I felt like I just couldn't do corporate anymore. I wasn't moving in the direction that I wanted to move in. And for me in that moment, it was almost just like if I don't start this, then I'm just going to be stuck. And I was tired of being stuck. And so you mentioned that you kind of made that leap. How

How thought out was it? How planned out was it? Because I will say you are speaking to my audience of whom I like to refer to affectionately as my accidental CEOs and ⁓ more passion than plan. Would you say that sort of classifies you? mean, OK, so I'm one of these people that my whole life I've wanted to run my own business. OK, I kind of knew that in the back of my head, even as a child. Like I have pictures that I drew that my parents still have of like I'm going to be the boss one day. And like, you know, I'm wearing like

a suit pant and like carrying a briefcase. Obviously I don't do that. It's very much like sweatpants most days here. But at the same time, like I feel like I had this, I had entrepreneurial blood in me. I just didn't know what it looked like. And so I think that's where the lack of maybe the accidental part comes in. Where it's like, I didn't know what kind of boss I wanted to be. And like for me, I could have been like, when I say that I

could have been running a company that was already owned by someone else, but I just knew I wanted to run something. And I think there was like this like really ⁓ dire need for me to just be able to be creative and build something. And so that's what I love doing. I don't know if you follow human design, but I'm a manny Jen. And for me, like I see sparkly things and I want to make it happen. And so that is my personality. But as far as planning goes, like,

Was I ever thinking about leaving the corporate world once I entered? No, I thought I was going to climb that corporate ladder. And it just the ladder just didn't seem to be going anywhere. It hit a bit of a ceiling, let's just say. Yeah. Which I think happens often. And like you said, you're looking for something more. You're not quite sure what that more is, but you you're not going to find it where you are. And I think so many women here made that kind of leap. I know some were even more accidental where

Circumstances just kind of led them somewhere and they looked up one day and they're like, oh, look at this. I'm running a business. You were a little bit intentional, of course, about where you were headed. But I think that's such a common story that so many women especially share of just, you know, it wasn't feeling right and good for you for trusting your gut on that because it seems to have worked quite well for you. So yeah, I mean, like nine years later, I'm still here. So something's working. Something's clearly working. Yeah.

And I mean, and you've probably gone through your own identity with your company, which I mean, and that's gotta be something that's gotta be so at the forefront when your entire brand rests on your ability to help other people with their brand images. So how do you not focus on your own? So what would you say the journey has looked like over the last nine years from who you thought you were when you started to who you are now? A lot of learning came from my corporate days, but also learning came in those early days where I was

creating my business and I've pivoted multiple times since. And I think that that is something that every great entrepreneur needs to learn to do is you cannot be set in stone ⁓ with how your business is running. And so I've even actually had a major pivot in the last two years where we dropped some services that no longer served our community in the right way, but it also didn't light me up anymore.

And especially being someone who works for myself and like enjoying the freedoms of entrepreneurship with my time and the value that I provide. I realized that that was not giving a hundred percent to the clients that I wanted to give a hundred percent to. And so I think the idea of pivoting has been really profound in my business journey in the nine years. So the business I started off with nine years ago is not the business I'm running today. Exactly. Some things have been consistent. We've always been branding and website driven.

But it's just adjusted to the clientele that is coming in and adjusted to the needs of the community around me. I tend to listen to what people are asking for and then find a way to make it happen. ⁓ And so that is, I think, key in any entrepreneurial journey. Yeah, I mean, and for better or for worse. So there's kind of a couple of things that you said that I want to unpack a little bit. So one of them is, you you're listening to what your community is saying. But before you said that, you also talked about

making sure that these are things that actually lit you up a little bit. And one of the things that I talk often about is the importance of ensuring that our profits, passion and progress are all in alignment because we need all of those things. And the sort of two question litmus test that I use for a lot of things is does this bring me joy and does this make me money? And while not everything we do that we have to do in the business is going to bring us joy.

And not everything that we do in the business that brings us joy is actually going to make us money. There has to be enough of a balance to ensure that you are bringing in money into the business, but that you're not losing sight of the things that actually make you happy. And the reason why I want to touch on this is because of what you said at the end there about how you listen to your clients and you let it take take you kind of where they needed you and you're meeting them where they're at, which I think is great, unless it's taking you away from what your own purpose is, from your own passion.

And I see that happen often to the accidental CEOs that I work with where they're like, well, I ended up adding this service because this client wanted this. And then I added this other service because this other client asked me for it. And they don't have the systems, processes, or infrastructure to support these things properly. And they don't really enjoy doing them that much. But people keep asking for them. So I guess I should just keep doing them. And I'm actually on a bit of a journey right now, which I'm not going to share the details of, where there's an element of my business I'm finding myself being pulled in. And I am enjoying it.

but I'm taking some time to properly evaluate. I going in that direction just because I see dollar signs? Because there's a lot of dollar signs in that direction, let me tell you. Or am I doing this because I feel like it'll actually fill my cup? I see it as a way that I can really help some people and I think I would get a lot of joy out of it, but I'm taking a bit of a more intentional and purposeful look at it before I fully add that to my roster. And so I love what you're saying there though about you've shifted and pivoted because you're absolutely right. This is key. We cannot...

be so stuck in the ways that we're doing this. Like, but like it took me five years to figure this out. And now you want me to pivot? Yeah, kind of. We got to make sure that we are serving our clients and serving our community the way that they need to be served. So good for you on being able to notice that. know nine years ago was just before COVID. so there's been a lot of pivots that you've gone through, I'm sure, through all of this. So in looking back to

what you were envisioning when you started and what you've got now, how different would you say those are?

Quite different actually. You know, I would say the core service is empowering my clients. The reason I started this business is I wanted to empower more grassroots businesses, more startups, more women led businesses ⁓ with branding services that I was seeing these corporations have or that I was working in these corporate worlds and being like, okay, well, small businesses need this. So I would say that never changed.

Okay. But the way that we show up for our clients has and the services we've provided has changed quite significantly. I think also for me understanding, I never wanted to be niched in to one industry. I love the fact that currently I have like a client who's an interior designer. I also have a jewelry company. I also have someone who does Google ads and they're all on my roster, but like I get to work with different industries. And so there's this fear of niching down, but what I realized

over the years is I attract female entrepreneurs. And it's because I can relate to them. It's because I speak their language. I understand the trials and tribulations of, you know, whether they're going through motherhood or a fertility journey or, you know, on top of, you know, running a business. I understand all of that. And I think that that's where I had to pivot the most is like actually claiming this is who I want to work with.

And this is what lights me up. And I think that that is something hard because when I started my business, it was very much like, you serve everyone that comes in. The customer is always right. And that's not the kind of business I lead now. I've found power in saying no. And I realized in that power and saying, no, I'm attracting my dream clients. I'm attracting the people that I actually want to work with. Now, that's not to say I don't work with men. Of course I do.

But most of them who come in are coming in through those female connections, right? And so I had to really change my idea and understand that I am not limiting myself if I just go out there and say, yeah, 90 % of my clients are female entrepreneurs who are either starting out or looking to empower themselves with a business that they already have and rebrand.

Exactly. Well, I mean, this podcast called the Real Women Real Business podcast, my mastery program, my group coaching program is the Real Women Real Business Mastery Program. Does it mean I don't work with men? No, but the men coming to me know my brand and they're attracted to that and they want that femininity approach to the work that we're doing together and they see my expertise. It doesn't mean I'm going to turn them away. Yeah, there is a very different approach to it. And it's great that you've identified that. And one thing that you also touched on was

when you're first building your business, you're going to take anything that's going to come your way and you feel like that's just a price I've got to pay. That's the dues I've got to pay of building a business. But that is the difference between survival mode and scaling because you can't scale that. You can't scale chaos, essentially. And so when you're taking everything, anything and everything that's coming your way, that's not scalable, but that's survivorship. And that's understandable. Every new business, if you're still in the first five years of your business and you're still feeling like you're in survivor mode, welcome to the club.

OK, this is you are where you need to be. Don't worry about it. But you should be looking towards what is scaling going to look like and start building some of those foundations for that now. So let's bring this kind of full circle here because we're talking about rebranding today. And so your own business has been on this journey. And I know for myself, I did a massive rebrand only two years into my business. And I'm going to age myself just a little bit here. But my first company started in 2008.

So I was designing the logo in like 2007. I worked with a graphic designer and that graphic designer kept bringing me stuff that I literally said, like I was hoping I was opening a home staging business. I literally said to the graphic designer, don't give me a house or a piece of furniture or a lamp or anything like that in my logo. I don't want it in my logo. No disrespect to any of my interior designers and home stages who are listening, who are like, totally have a house and a sofa in my logo. You do you. OK, but I specifically didn't want that.

and every logo they're giving me had that in it. And so I kind of had in my head an idea of what I wanted it to look like. In the end, you're gonna love this. I hand drew it, gave it to the graphic designer. It was like, digitize this, this as an actual logo. Was it great? No. But it was, it was it, cause this is before the days of Canva. And I kind of knew how to use Photoshop, but not enough that I felt like I should actually be designing in it.

So I knew enough to like, you gave me something, I can manipulate it a little bit, but starting from scratch, not my jam. So gave it to the graphic designer, got it done. So a couple of years into the business, I was like, this is not representing me. This is not, this is not going to serve me well. So did it work with a new graphic designer, did a full rebrand and I'm not going to lie. It was not a small amount of things to do. Now I did know when I launched my first logo, I knew it was a temporary logo. I knew I was going to rebrand at some point. knew it wasn't perfect. So I was a little bit.

I held back a little bit in terms of how much I branded that needed to be changed, but it didn't make it inexpensive still for the new logo, the new website, new postcards, new brochures, new business cards. Everything that had my logo on it had to be changed. So I'm sure that this is so we're going to talk about the emotional side of it, but just that part alone, I think, keeps people from wanting to rebrand. What is it that you're finding when you're talking with someone about rebranding or when? OK, let me actually let me back this up.

When they're coming to you, do they know they need to rebrand or is that more of a conversation that comes up through the journey? I think there's two types of clients that come in that stage. There are some people who are not sure that they even need a brand. ⁓ And they just think like, know, hey, I can just do this with a website. And then there's the other person who kind of feels like they've outgrown it. I would say the latter does happen more often.

is where they have something that they started off with and it was either a DIY or maybe a semi custom kit or something that they've done on Canva, but it's not something that's scaling with them. And so there is this realization, I think, for a lot of clients where they feel like something's missing. ⁓ another thing is something that I like to point out every now and then on social media is like, are you sending people to your Instagram page or your website?

And that I think sparks a lot of like, even if people are not thinking about it all of a sudden, they're just like, wait, why am I sending people to my Instagram page and not my website? Because, you know, Instagram could shut down for all we know and you're gone, right? Your whole business is gone. You got it. So you need to have a platform that you own and you need to be proud of it. So there is there are so few people that we have to kind of like educate as we go on that. ⁓ But I do feel like clients who come in and they're ready.

They've seen the conversations I've had online and most of them are around this topic of like, when do you know you're ready? And the clearest answer is when you're not feeling confident, right? And part of that comes from, and I know that I see this often, like we are so inundated with marketing these days. And this is not a new thing. We've always been inundated with marketing. There's just way more platforms that it's on now, but we are constantly being sold to, we're constantly seeing brands.

But what that also does as a business owner is you can't help but see when a brand is showing up better than you, even if they're not even in your same industry, but you're hidden on a website like, ⁓ well, this is professional. And, look at that logo. And like you're getting a feeling from what they're giving to you. And when you start acknowledging that, it's sort of like when you decide that you're going to purchase this red car, all you see on the road are red cars. As soon as you start getting this inkling that like, my brand might be a little bit off.

You are paying attention to everybody else's brand out there. Okay, so we're going to dive into some of the emotional aspect of this right after this quick message. All right, welcome back to the Real Women Real Business podcast where Puja and I are talking about rebranding. I've had my own personal experience with rebranding as sort of as she as her business has evolved as well, but

We want to talk about the emotional side that comes along with this, because I know that some people often get stuck on it's a massive investment of time, of money. But I think behind all of that is a whole lot of emotion. We don't even want to admit it to ourselves. So let's let's dig into this a little bit. Why do you think this process is so emotionally charged for business owners? So I always say branding is self discovery and you learn more about yourself and about the business, how it's showing up and how it's not showing.

And I think the not kind of scares people is like, Hey, I want, these are my goals for the next five to 10 years. That's easy to say, but what are my, what are my pain points that are keeping me from there? That's the hard part. And that's where the emotions kind of get triggered. ⁓ our process before we even start designing is quite lengthy. Right. So we have a questionnaire, we have, you know, a fun activity for you to do. Then we have a 60 minute session that where we sit down.

and we workshop things and people are always shocked to know that there's this whole process before we even start designing. And the reason being is like, for me, I want to create timeless brands. I don't want my clients coming back to me for a rebrand every few years. I want them coming back to me for an expansion on what they already have. ⁓ But you have to be ready to get to that point. And that I think is really important and key is like understanding that the process is what's going to allow us to peel back that layers.

but the process is what gets emotional too. So we're asking the questions, we're kind of triggering, we're seeing how your dream clients are seeing you, right? I think it's difficult too, because we sort of have this protective shell around our businesses. And of course, if you're out at an event and someone says, how's the business going? my gosh, it's amazing. I love it. Like here's my business card, here's my website. And you've got to...

constantly be saying how proud you are of everything that you've built. And so when in the back of your head, you're like, I mean, just don't look that closely at the branding or the website or any of the things or or when someone says, I mean, I definitely had where someone's handed the business card to me. They're like, go to my Instagram. Like I haven't really updated my website in a while. Just go to my Instagram page. You know, so there's this, you know, this protective shell that I think we put on things. And now what you're doing is you're peeling all that away and saying like, so knock, knock, we're going to take this shell away here.

You expose everything. You've got to get to the messy middle of it all to kind of figure out, you know, all this ooey gooey stuff. We've got to figure out how to turn that into the cohesive brand that they're actually looking for. How often would you say that you have someone where you work on this rebrand with them and they're feeling almost guilty of like, should have done this from the start? ⁓ very often. Yeah.

Like, how do you feel about this? Like, do you feel they should have done it from the start? Or do feel like they had to go through that in order to get to where they are? You where are you on that? I so I feel like sometimes you just need to start. And so if that I told I'm totally team, just start. Yeah. And when you're just starting, like, like we provide brand kits to for people who just need to like rip off that bandaid and get going. And so brand kits are like a smaller, they're semi custom. You just choose a kit, purchase it, and then you're done. You're on your way.

but that is very much made for that starter entrepreneur. And so I feel like all of us ⁓ start at a point where we just need to get out there. So I am okay with people coming to me, you know, two years into business, one year into business, because one, they've learned a little bit more about themselves. They've learned a little bit more about their clients. And so I like to say, is the done for you services that we provide, where we go really deep in, it's,

built on an experienced entrepreneur. That's not to say that I don't have clients who come in and they haven't even launched their business and they do the done for you. It still works for them. Of course, because we're doing all this pre-work in order to understand their vision. But I do think that there is something really magical about seeing someone who has something, but they're not necessarily proud of it anymore. They're not confident. It doesn't provide the clarity and scaling for them anymore. And then seeing the magic of that person when they leave the door.

because it's night and day, it's two different people, right? And so I think that's really magical to see. Well, I mean, as you talked earlier, though, just about the evolution of the business, the natural evolution of the business, the pivoting that you're going to be doing. And so that's to be expected. This is a part of that pivoting. That is a part of that journey for them. And to get that clarity from day one is really difficult without the experience, because as you said, you grew your business based on

where your clients needed you to show up and how they needed you to show up for them. And you don't have that experience when you're first starting out. You can't predict that. I don't care how good of a business plan you have created. I can guarantee that you cannot predict everything. No matter how much market research you did, no matter how many conversations you had with Chad GPT or your business advisor, your business coach or your counselor, whatever, no matter how much you do, no matter how much inner work you do, you don't.

know what you don't know when you're first starting. So I feel like, you know, I can imagine there's a lot of guilt around it. I wouldn't say that I had guilt around my initial logo because I was in team, let's get started. Yeah. I had to get started and I knew it wasn't permanent. And I knew that trying to do anything bigger than that was just going to hold me back. So it's like, let's, let's do this. Let's go. But the rebrand, ⁓ did that feel good? Yeah. Yeah. And that's what it is. It's like, it's like,

It's refreshing. It's you. You feel more confident with it. And that confidence, I think, is what makes things really magical when we're when we're in that process with somebody who's an experienced entrepreneur. And yes, you talk with a deeper work of rebranding goes beyond just the visuals. And I think this is another thing that's really important to touch on, because we think of a brand as well. That's my logo. Right. Yeah. OK, let's talk about what you define as the brand and everything that comes with it. So I would say a brand is all your senses.

when it comes to your business. It's visually, yes, that is the easiest thing that we could say is your brand, your colors, your fonts. That's what we associate with But there is also a feeling and the emotion that we want to evoke. And we evoke those through imagery, through colors, through fonts, through the things that you see visually. it's also this gut feeling or, you know, I read somewhere we have five seconds to catch attention these days and that is nothing.

Right. And so how are we going to get people to stop scrolling and see you or memorize you and give you that same experience that we get when we're in a grocery store? Like when you're walking down aisles, you know, if you see a certain color of red down the pop aisle, you know what brand that is. Right. Absolutely. So we want to create that for your brand as well. And so I think that's really important is to understand that that sort of magic in what we're doing. It's not just visual, but it's that feeling. know, like

with Coca-Cola for the example, you know the feeling that it evokes when you open a crisp can that's like iced, right? So it's like creating that. commercials. They have the hearing of like what the can looks, how it sounds when it's opening, how it sounds when it's pouring, how it sounds when you take a sip and showing all of that where you're almost like you can feel it going down your throat and you can feel the bubbles, because it's showing you the bubbles. it's, they evoke every element of that. mean, Coca-Cola is

Of course you're bringing that up as a brand. But it is one of the iconic brands that has always been able to hit the marketing pretty much nail it on the head. They have had some absolute flops. Don't get me wrong. But I mean, every Christmas we still see our little Coca-Cola bears going down. It's the same thing every time. polar bears with them. Exactly.

You know, they're clearly doing something right. And I mean, and they've gone through their fair share of rebranding over the years. But at the end of the day, they've never done something to their brand other than maybe what was it? Coke Zero? wasn't Coke Zero. What was the one that flopped? I can't think of it. know what you're talking about. It was before Coke Zero. was a different version of it. But in any case, we all know there was a massive flop and Coke was like, we take it all back.

⁓ But they haven't massively changed the brand though. They didn't come out with a massive new logo that was just like night and day difference. They evolved it over time. And I think that's what's key too. Have you ever had someone who sort of gets stuck of like, don't want to let go of my original branding? Yes. Yeah, that happens often. ⁓ But how we work through it is like,

we work with them. I have had somebody who's like, you know, very stuck on one element of their brand, whether it's a color or like a font usage or something in their logo. And so our, way that we work is I will share two different concepts with you. One will be a concept that will like in this case would be a concept, including that piece of work. And then the other will be a concept without that.

And it's funny because that actually recently happened to me with a client who really wanted this animal in her branding. you know, at first I was just like, Hey, how are we going to show them? Like this really doesn't go with your brand, but like, I'm going to try and make it happen. And we did, we created a concept around it. It worked. was something that I would still be proud to share if that's the concept we went with, but the minute that she saw it, she was just like, Nope, let's pivot to this one. Because now that I've seen this,

I realized this is where my brand is headed and that might have been something that was part of my old branding, but it's not where I'm headed. So for me, branding is very collaborative as well. I want you to be happy. You have to be confident in your brand. It's not about my happiness. It's about your happiness. And so that's where I will work with you to make sure that your vision is coming to life and you're confident sharing that throughout the years. Because if you're not happy with it in those concept stages, then

That means that either like we've missed a mark or something's gone, we're missing something in the communication where we need to get to that. And so that doesn't happen often, like because we do so much pre-work, it's inevitable that we do get something ⁓ in the right vision that you want and then we work through feedback rounds. But it's all collaborative in the sense that we want you to be happy with it in the end. I would say like, our clients leave us great reviews and they're still some of our...

still our friends and we can talk about them years later. And so that is something that I'm really proud of because we're able to create those relationships because we're able to bring that vision to life, even if they might not know what that is at that point. Yeah. And I think that's a really important thing to touch on though, is just that it is an iterative process and it is an involved process. But a lot of our audience here is actually interior designers. So they understand better than anyone. Like let's take emotions out of it sometimes and just, okay, like, cause your ego, need to, as a designer, you need to check your ego at the door.

That doesn't mean that you want your client to go down a path where like we've all had it where they're like, but I really want this tile in the bathroom. You're like, oh, it's going to be awful, but okay, you're going really challenge me. Let me see how I can work it in. And you figured out a way to work it in, but you still give them option B that's more along the lines of what you think they're trying to achieve by getting hung up on this one thing. And then you show it them like, oh yeah, I know that's what I want. I mean, I literally met with a client this morning and we're redesigning the exterior of her house.

And in my initial concept presentation, I showed her one exterior of the house, like, no, I don't think so. No, that's too dark. No, I don't like this. And so then we went through this process of changing different elements of it and completely going in completely different directions all to, you know what, go right back to the beginning. And now, but had she not gone through that process, she wouldn't have felt as comfortable with the original idea. I was able to get there faster because it's what I do and I could see it.

So just like, can see these things, you can see it faster than your clients can sometimes. But again, we've got the emotions on our end of it. I don't know, I'm stuck on it. Yeah. But sometimes it's good. The process helps and it helps me too, because I've never received feedback where it hasn't made the design better. Is what I always like to say is like for me, it's collaborative. so I want you, I want your input. want your honesty so that we can bring something to life.

you know, every time I look at, you know, the initial concepts versus what we end up doing, I'm, I'm in awe because I'm like, okay, this is wonderful. But if I hadn't, I not received that feedback. We wouldn't be here. Have you ever nailed it? Like on the first try? yeah. Yeah. That's just magic. So when that happens, you're just like, okay, let's do this. Yeah. It's funny. Cause like the most recent time. So that's happened a few times to me, but the most recent, ⁓ I had a client who fell in love with the brand.

like right off the go. And she was just like, let's go. This is perfect. I love everything about it. And then we started the website process and for whatever reason, the initial design of the website was just not it. And it surprised her because she's like, well, you got my brand instantly. Like I expected this to go instantly too. And I was just like, well, usually that's the case, but usually we, you know, you don't get the brand this instantly either.

So was backfired on you that sets an expectation. so I was just like, OK. But then it was funny because it was just parts of communication that were missing with us where we were just like, oh, we were under the impression that she wanted to go in this, you know, bolder look where she wanted something actually more feminine and a little bit more, you know, subtle. But once we got that, the second round, she was just like, this is exactly what I was talking about. you know, there's always hits and misses like that. And I don't think that

That's one of the reasons why I mentor is because I want ⁓ people who are coming into the industry to know that feedback is not negative. Feedback is something that's going to help you elevate your designs. It has always helped me elevate my design. That's not to say that there are some times where you spiked that magic and you get it in one go. Yes, and that's beautiful, but there are going to be times where it's going to be more of a process. That's why I have my process in place.

I don't know anyone who's ever said ⁓ feedback didn't help me. ⁓ Don't get me wrong, some feedback is not as helpful. It's not all weighed the same way. But if you are living in a bubble and never asking your clients for feedback in anything that you're doing, ⁓ that's how you grow. That's how I grew. My first business, the home staging business.

I was sending out a survey to every single client, even if I just did a consultation with them, I sent a survey about their experience. And I will tell you every time I got one of those surveys back, and this is before like Google reviews were what they are today. don't know if Yelp existed. And so I'm sending out these surveys and I would get this little notification, you've got a survey response. like, I'm gonna open this. it was, would freak out. And every time I opened it, even when they provided, I don't wanna call it negative, it was definitely more constructive. My clients were always very kind, but.

We specifically asked questions to get them to tell us the bad stuff. specifically made sure that they couldn't avoid telling us the bad stuff, which nowadays we're just like, just give me a Google review. That's not, yes, that's making it great for other people to be able to find you. It's not actually giving you what you need. You need to be asking for the negative stuff. That is the stuff that I built my business on. When I started seeing the same responses coming through of where they're feeling friction or any sort of negative feelings, and keep in mind, my...

My job as a home stager is to help them to prepare their house for sale. That is not an enjoyable process for anyone who's been through it. There's no sugar coating that. But if there were ways where I could eliminate some of the overwhelming friction along the way for them, which I identify what those things were and how I could do it, it was just smooth sailing from there. So if we can do that in our business, whatever your business is, if you can identify how to remove some friction for your clients, the only way can do that is through feedback. So I in this case, we're talking about feedback.

for a creative process. But I think it's important in every element of that. 100%. And I do want to talk though a little bit, because you kind of touched on this just a moment ago, about your corporate dropout, that mentorship for creatives who want to leave their nine to five. I love that you called it corporate dropout, the way. Right. It's such a great spin on a potentially negatively perceived term, that dropout. And let's own it.

Well, I introduced myself as a corporate dropout, so I love it. Love it. Love it. OK, so what's the biggest mind shift you see that people need to make in that transition? I think that for them, it's more so like feedback is one of them, because I feel like sometimes when you come from that corporate world, there might not be a lot of it. And people I find, especially with designers, they hold their art to their heart.

And for me, like I tell all my clients, have thick skin. I would rather you just give me your honest opinion than try to fluff it up. Right. And teaching that mindset shift is don't keep all your artwork to your heart. Like let it be theirs. Let them have ownership over it. ⁓ Is really important because I feel like once designers start seeing it like that, they are more accepting of feedback and making the changes.

building something that they know is right. I also see a lot of people who don't have strong boundaries. And I feel like that's something that you could also talk about for hours is like having those strong boundaries are important. Like if you're signing up for this freedom life that you get with entrepreneurship, we want to make sure that you're not working more than you were, you know, when you were in corporate.

That's not to say my brain doesn't turn off. Like, like it just doesn't. Like I'm in the shower. I'm still thinking about my business, but at the same time, I'm able to take a Friday off because my kid has like a PA day and he can't go to school that day or whatever the case is. Like you want to have those freedoms. And in order to have that, you have to create strong boundaries and boundaries come through workflows, through expectations, contracts.

All that communication, all the things. Yeah. Yeah. So I would say boundaries and just the mindset of like not holding ownership of everything, like understanding that your work belongs to that client and that is their company. And that's pretty huge. Yeah. I can imagine that that's a bit of a, definitely a bit of a shift for anyone who's coming from the corporate world or the feedback that they got was always just do it faster, do it better, but not, you know,

constructive enough and ⁓ they're not only being able to accept the feedback, but understanding how to pull out the feedback that you need, how to ask the right questions, how to be unafraid. Like when you're working at a corporate job, how often are you going to your boss and saying, can you tell me how I'm doing? And can you tell me like what you don't like about this? Like it's not, it's not as open communication in a lot of, some places are getting much better. get me wrong. Who am I to talk? It's been almost 20 years since I've been in corporate world.

It's been a little, it's been a minute, let's just say. But nonetheless, I think it's a wonderful thing that you're doing though, helping other creatives to pursue their dreams and that freedom lifestyle. But I love that you are also emphasizing, but we got to actually make it that freedom lifestyle. Yes, 100%. And one thing I will add to that is like, I feel like there are rules in corporate that you don't necessarily have to follow when you're an entrepreneur. Right, for better or for worse. Yes.

And so like, you know, I can give an example, like one of my, one of the women I was mentoring, she had an incredible portfolio, but she was putting all this work ahead of all her incredible work. And when I asked her, she was like, Oh, well, you know, that one's more recent and it was done for a corporate and this and that. And I'm like, yeah, but you have this incredible case study. And so if I'm either hiring a designer or looking at their work, I want to see the incredible work first. It doesn't matter when you created it or how you create it. I want to see your best. And so.

even just pushing that ahead of like, you some of the work that might be a little nuanced in corporate is, is key. And so I think putting your best foot forward is something that you have to unlearn. I think that's so key. Yeah. I like that. Like not necessarily about chronological, but yeah. So what would you say is lighting you up in your business these days? What's the thing that brings you the most joy? I think these days, like really just working with

entrepreneurs who are rebranding. Like I just, love, I love the magic of seeing somebody walk through those doors, seeing where their pain points are, and then the way that they leave, confidence that they leave with, the clarity that they leave with, it's, really something that brings me complete joy. So if someone is considering a rebrand right now, what's, what are a couple of maybe some quick wins that you could give them or some things to be considering? Because, you know, maybe they're thinking, it's not quite right.

Right. Like it's not quite working for me, but I'm not quite sure what direction I need to go in. And they're still kind of at those early stages. What are some things that they can start working on to help help them to determine the next steps? I think really thinking about who they want to be in the next five, 10, 15 years. That's a question we always ask. Really figuring out how you want your business to be shaped. And if you have an exit strategy.

You know, if that's something that you're thinking about down the road, even if it's like two or, you know, you can be in your twenties and still be thinking about an exit strategy. Yes. Think about all of that and what's going to get you elevated to that point. You know, I like to know everyone's wish list and I say, put all of it on it. Give me all the information, even the information you don't think makes any sense that you're giving me. I want it all because that's what's going to decode what your rebrand looks like. Right. Yeah.

And it's so important, like you said, I mean, even just exit strategy, which is actually something that I help a lot of my clients with. A lot of my clients are going through transitions of acquiring companies or potentially selling companies or merging with companies. And so I help with a lot of that exit strategy. But I think it's something that, you know, from the very beginning. So, for example, are you naming your company after yourself? Yeah. And if so, what does that look like going forward? So if your exit strategy has, you know,

one of your children taking things over or something, okay, that family name might still work. But if your exit strategy is you want to be able to blow this thing up and then sell it for millions of dollars, you might not be able to keep your name on it. And don't get me wrong, it's worked really well for people like Coco Chanel and Armani and like there are Ralph Lauren, there are plenty of people who did just fine putting their name all over their thing. So I'm not saying don't do it, just to be clear, it does not mean it's not sellable.

But it's something to consider, of course. 100%. And I do feel like it changes over time. Like it depends on your business and your industry, right? Absolutely. Yeah. But we can't all be Coco Chanel. No, unfortunately. This has been such an incredible conversation. If someone's going to walk away with one, one takeaway from today's episode, one thing that we've talked about that you want them to, to really leave with, what would that be? That rebranding shouldn't be scary.

And it's something that is going to give you the clarity and confidence that you need. I think that's really something that I want people to resonate with and understand is that even if there's fear and emotions and triggers involved with it, it's going to be incredible at the end. And you'll feel the magic and you'll feel really confident. And that's what we want you to leave with. Love that. And if our listeners want to connect with you, where's the best place that they can find you and learn about your work?

Yeah, my website is Roopcreativeagency.com and then I have a lot of fun on threads. That seems to be my fun place to be right now socially, but I'm also on LinkedIn. I'm also on Instagram, so you can find me in all those fun places. Amazing. Well, listen, Puja , it's been an absolute pleasure having you join me on the podcast. Thank you so much for everything you shared today. It was so valuable. Thank you for having me.

Amazing. So we'll make sure that we've got your website and your socials all posted, of course, in our show notes. All the resources, of course, that we mentioned for every one of our shows appears in our show notes. And if you are listening to this episode, what we're saying here today is resonating with you. hope that you will continue to allow us to join you on your journey of entrepreneurship. Tune in each week. We drop new episodes every Tuesday morning at 7 a.m. And of course, if this episode is really resonating with you and you think this is so great, I can't keep this to myself, you know, the best way.

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