Ep 116 Transcript: The Real Reason So Many Women Feel Trapped in Traditional Work with Danielle Kepics

This transcript was auto-generated and may contain errors in spelling or inaccuracies in the spoken words.

Shauna Lynn Simon (01:50.05)

Hello and welcome to the Real Women Real Business podcast. I am your host, Shauna Lynn Simon. And today I'm joined by Danielle Kepics. She is the founder of Empowered Mind and Body and co-founder of Unconventional Collaborative, a community for practitioners who want to elevate their work. Now Danielle's background is seriously multi-layered. She's worked as a physician assistant, had a master's in counseling psychology, and now blends that experience and expertise into an integrative coaching approach.

that helps people improve energy, hormones, digestion, sleep, libido, and so much more. So in this episode, we're gonna talk about a whole lot of things here. I think we're gonna get into a little bit about what it looks like to leave conventional medicine, start a business before it's perfect, and build something that's sustainable that actually fits your life. So Danielle, welcome to the show. Hi.

Danielle Kepics (02:39.042)

Thanks so much for having me. I'm really excited to talk about the business end of things because most of the time when I do podcasts, it's like health related. I obviously love talking about that, but I'm really excited to talk a little bit about my business journey.

Shauna Lynn Simon (02:50.382)

I'm super excited to talk about this because you've again you've got just such this multifaceted kind of I mean we talk about multi-passionate entrepreneurism and you definitely have a very unique background coming into entrepreneurship and so when was the moment what was the moment when you realized like conventional medicine wasn't going to be the long-term path for you?

Danielle Kepics (03:11.042)

It's funny because I literally just recorded a podcast the other day and someone asked me the exact same question. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I love this.

Shauna Lynn Simon (03:17.718)

It's a great starting point. It's a good jumping off point. We've to build a little bit of the history here, right?

Danielle Kepics (03:22.198)

It is, it is. So I've been a board certified physician assistant for 12 years. So I graduated at PA school in 2014. I very quickly kind of hopped into travel PA work. So I moved all around the United States for like three to four years of my life. I did some short stints in permanent positions as well generally in general medicine, we would say like different levels of care. So family practice, urgent care.

hospital medicine. So I feel like I never really got a chance to like sink my feet into the cement places and see all the bureaucratic crap that goes on in places. And so once that happened, it was two weeks before the pandemic hit. And so without getting into too much about that, like I really knew that this was not the alignment where I wanted to be. And you you talk about me being a multi-passionate human.

You know, before I was a PA, I was a mental health therapist. Before that, I was a personal trainer. I've been lifting weights more than a lot of people have been alive. I've been lifting weights for 30 years. I've been a competitive CrossFit athlete. I've been, I've ran half marathons. I've done a lot of things. And, you know, the reason that I spent most of my time in family practice was because I didn't want to be a pills, potions, and procedure type of person. wanted to really head chronic disease off and talk about.

nutrition and lifestyle and exercise and all these things that people can do. And I was really being met with, isn't there a pill for this? And it wasn't everybody, but it was enough people that it made me want to disrespectfully bang my head against a wall. so fast forward through the pandemic, the Institute that I was working for at the time, we get continuing education money and they paid for me to go get this thing called a fertility awareness certification, which

All of the certifications that I have were not like weekend warrior certifications. Like my fertility awareness certification was nine months of my time. And my FDNP was also nine months of my time. Most people take two years for that, but you know, I have a medical background, so it made it a little easier. Anyway, I think it's important that people like know who they're like, you know, I know we're not talking mostly about health, but anyway.

Shauna Lynn Simon (05:22.414)

There are some degrees and certifications you can get literally over a week said yes or like a couple of quick questions online these are oh you're

Danielle Kepics (05:25.655)

Five.

Danielle Kepics (05:31.054)

Certified, yeah. I have a lot of credibility behind my name that I've worked really, really hard for. so, I go through and do this fertility awareness education certification. I wanted to bring it to the institute that I was at and teach women at large how to track their menstrual cycle so that they can use it either as natural reproductive protection, so as literally birth control, or to...

achieve pregnancy if that's their depending on like whatever your goal is at the time, right? And yada yada yada. I'm talking to these higher ups and one day it was Good Friday in 2022. My collaborating physician comes to me he's like, we need to talk about this thing that you want to do. And I said, okay. And he says, you know, a lot of people don't like the way that you talk about gynecologists on the internet. And I said, well, I don't like the way that they do their job.

Shauna Lynn Simon (06:19.38)

Danielle Kepics (06:21.172)

Next, like, what's your point? And they're like, well, they don't think that you can work with them to do this. I'm like, no, no, no, this wasn't a collaboration. And I love collaborating. Don't get me wrong. I, I'm the first person to say when I don't know something, let me ask the one who knows more. This isn't my area of expertise. I think that that is a very important skill for practitioners and as a human being to say, to know when you don't know. Right. And I was like, when I stopped fixing their missed and misdiagnoses, I will apologize. And until then I have nothing further to you.

And he just looked at me like, I walked out the door that day and I said some explicatives and I will try to keep those under control here, which is really hard for me.

Shauna Lynn Simon (07:00.642)

We try to keep this child friendly because we know so many women are listening while they're taking the kids to school or whatever. Like we want to make it as.

Danielle Kepics (07:07.342)

Are gestures okay?! Anyway, I knew that day that I would be gone. And eight months later, I was full time into my business and I was out the door and I said, sayonara, see you later.

Shauna Lynn Simon (07:19.896)

Okay, and so, I mean, so much respect for making that decision. It was obviously something that you were really passionate about. I think it speaks to a lot of women put up with a lot of things that they feel like, I kind of got to stay here. And so someone might be listening to this and they might be thinking, well, okay, that's easy for you to say, but yeah. I can't do that because insert whatever excuse you want here.

But I want to talk about that a little bit because I know for myself, for example, like I've talked about this numerous times, failure was never an option for me because I am single. There is no safety net that exists there. Does it mean that I've done everything perfect along the way? Absolutely not.

And, you know, I've quite openly about a mistake that I made just a couple of years back that cost me six figures. And that was a hard thing to recover from because I didn't have someone else saying like, that's okay. I'll pay the bills while you get back on your feet. No, no, I had to make things work myself. So for yourself, so when someone's listening to this and saying, well, it's easy for her to say, but she probably doesn't have the commitments I have, the responsibilities that I have, et cetera. Yeah.

So explain a little bit about how that felt for you because from what I understand, was not, you know, perfectly grass is green, roses are blooming, like everything's coming up rainbows for you to make that shift, but you were passionate about it.

Danielle Kepics (08:44.802)

First of all, allow me to laugh at the person saying that about me. So I, at the time that I left my job, I was the only source of income in my household and I live with my boyfriend. He had started a business that, know, whatever was going on there and you know, and I have two dogs. know that they're not like, they're not

Shauna Lynn Simon (09:05.144)

It's They're not inexpensive. Yeah.

Danielle Kepics (09:06.634)

Yeah, and you know, and there's still a responsibility and I also have myself obviously to take care of. I, you know, I have a lot of friends who like left their traditional jobs and they're like, it was so scary. And I was like, was it with your husband's six figure salary? Tell me about how scary it was. Oh my God. And listen, I, and like, I don't mean that in a disrespectful way, but there is a, there is a different layer of pressure when you're like sink or swim or like, do you want food on your table?

kind of thing. And it was the other layer of that for me was like, I can't go back. Like this, am so committed to serving women in a different way. And I would like to say to your audience too, like this is not me completely crapping on conventional medicine. Like if I have a broken bone, don't send me to someone who's a gut health specialist. Like don't do that. Like, you know, and everything has their time and place, but I think

By and large, a lot of women are coming out and talking about the dismissal and gaslighting that they are experiencing in medicine. And I was like, I can't be a part of this. I have to serve women in a different way. like not only that financial pressure, but that pressure of like this on a existential, like deep soul level is so against what I want to be doing with my life that I literally, that was almost more pressure for me than the financial part of it. And I was smart. Like every dollar that I made part-time working in my business,

I didn't touch it. It got saved. So I did have a nice financial safety net. I did have a great job, like a high paying job that I could save money. So if we want to talk about starting lines, like, yes, I did have that. And also like, you know, I loved public student loan forgiveness and I have a lot of loan debt and like, I'm still figuring that out. And so that's how important making that decision was to me is I was just like, you know what? Everything is "figure-out-able" and you know, I have one life and I can't spend it 40 hours a week having my soul suck dry. I can't.

Shauna Lynn Simon (10:53.742)

I think that's the key is that we often find ourselves, and I want to be clear about this too, because you might be finding yourself that in your business that you started with all this passion, that somehow that passion is gone, that fire is out. And that is usually because you have allowed other people to determine the direction of your business. And so many entrepreneurs are guilty of doing this. look up about five, it's usually about five years into the business, sometimes a little sooner, sometimes a little later, but around five years in, they look up and they're like, this isn't what I was.

building, but it's what clients were asking for. made an exception here and I can kind of sort of do this. You shift things. And so what, what Danielle is talking about here about feeling so called to do something, that's pretty much what every entrepreneur starts with. And then it's easy to lose that over the years as well. So I want to come back to like that passion, that core of things in your case, of course, it's conventional medicine. And I'm very similar to you. I believe there is a place.

for all different types of practices and medicine. And I would never claim to tell someone that, you what they're practicing is ineffective unless it is literally like snake oil or something. But, but nonetheless, but nonetheless, I mean, I, I've talked about my story quite openly on, the show that I ended up facing burnout back in 2017. My body shut down. ended up with shingles and couldn't recover from it.

Danielle Kepics (12:03.406)

It's a lot of snake oil.

Shauna Lynn Simon (12:20.672)

After about a year after I had shingles, I was still absolutely exhausted. Doctors couldn't figure out what was wrong. I'd gone to see more specialists than I knew what to do with. had a bunch of really terrible advice. I will say that my doctors were trying, but they felt limited in their experience and in their knowledge. And I finally had a doctor say to me about a year in, she finally looked at me, she was like, I don't really know what else to do for you, if I'm being honest.

And I was like, that is fantastic. Thank you so much. And my next call was to a natural path. And I went to a natural path and I spent another two years working with her and it was an incredible journey. have, I, literally saved my life and I wouldn't be where I am today if it wasn't for a doctor saying to me, I don't know what else to do. And I appreciated that she wasn't telling me to give up to be clear. She was trying everything that she could think of, but she was not, she just wasn't equipped to help me any further.

And so it gave me that opening to explore alternatives. And I now live a lifestyle that very much incorporates the foods that I eat, the supplements that I take, along with conventional medicine where it's necessary. But I would say I'm more natural than not, but there's a time for all the things. And actually, I know that before we hit record here, you actually talked about, you've got some information on HRT.

that I would be very interested in being perimenopausal. I don't know if we'll get into that on the show, because I do want to get into more of the business stuff, but there's so much out there, especially when you are in perimenopause and trying to get the right answers. And I think that we need more people who are advocating for not even just a different path for medicine, but one where we feel we're heard, we're being listened to, we're being respected. Our thoughts and our opinions about our own body matter, because I think like...

We want to say that the days of women being diagnosed with hysteria is over and at the same time, right?

Danielle Kepics (14:14.926)

Listen, it's just been relabeled. We're just saying different things to women. Medicine is still doing it. Right. It's still doing it.

Shauna Lynn Simon (14:20.274)

And not everyone, again, this is not labeling, we're not painting everyone in the same brush. We're not saying that every doctor is terrible. And we also understand the restrictions that, and some of the constraints that come along with the traditional medical system. And so we're not, this is not trying to dump on that by any means, but the point that I really want to get across is that you were seeing a massive gap in the market and you were being pulled to fill that. And that is important.

But it only matters if you can make money doing it at end of the day. Like this is great and you could be the most altruistic person that I know, but we all have bills to pay. I can't call up my cable company and tell them like, hey, I'm not going to be able to pay you guys this month, but let me tell you about all the good deeds I did to help people. Like they don't care, right? So actually I don't even have cable, that's a, so maybe that's better. Let's say my cell phone company, cause that's something I'm not going to live without. So that's a better example.

But the point is that they're not going to care about all these great things that I did for other people. It wasn't cash that they paid me, but goodwill felt really good. Yeah. No, we need actually cold hard cash in the company. So you've talked about how you kind of started messy or you were telling me anyway, that you kind of started a little messy and it sounds like this was a pretty quick decision that you're making. You're like, alright, things need to shift here. So what did this look like in real life as you're leaving one and

Danielle Kepics (15:41.678)

So yeah, I mean, like it wasn't as quick and messy, I think as maybe it sounds. I host a podcast, Strong and Unfiltered. And I started that in 2020, you know, one day in 2019, I said to my now business partner, said, you know, I think I want to start creating content on the internet. And so I did. And so for three years plus before I asked anybody to give me a dollar, I spent that time building trust, not knowing what I was doing, not knowing that that's what I was doing. Right. And I would have people sliding into my DMs. How can I work with you? And I'm like, huh?

Like, I'm like, come see me in Utah. Like I don't, you know, I don't really know. And so I do want to make that count. Like I did have that going for me. That was like such a blessing in disguise that that happened. And that's the path that I took in those. And I think that it's really important for women, especially to know like those little things that your gut is telling you to do, like do them. Because what if I would have just been like, everybody has a podcast now and Joe Rogan tells everybody to start a podcast. And what's the point? Like.

If I would have let those thoughts sneak in, like this might never be, I don't know. You know, I'm someone who really likes to sit back and look at the serendipity of it all. And was like go 12 decisions back about how I got here today. Right. So like us sitting down and podcasting, for instance, I met a friend on the internet. Her name is Brooke.

and she's a wonderful dietician. And I told her, was like, you know, I'm really trying to get on more podcasts and I feel really frustrated. She's like, I'm on this Facebook group, you know, for podcasters and you should try to get in there. Like, I'm happy to, you know, support you and tell people what a great guest you are and things like that. And I was like, okay. So if I never would have started my Instagram account, if I never would have however Brooke and I found each other. And then she was driving across the country with her husband when they moved from Alaska. And I was like, I'll come meet you in Moab.

You know, like, I mean, just these things like that happen that it's like listening to those decisions and not shoving those down because of whatever reason I think is so important. Right. The pivot that actually happened to me, which my initial business was Empowered Medicine, which switched to Empowered Mind and Body. And now I have both. Right. And so anyway, that weekend I came home, Good Friday weekend, April 22nd, I was actually doing a photo shoot for my business because I had said that originally my business was going to be how to teach people to talk to their doctors more effectively.

Danielle Kepics (17:57.218)

I came home that weekend and I said, we're pivoting. Like this has to be a full-time thing. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. It's going to be called this. This is how I'm going to work with people. This is what it's going to look like. I am definitely one of those people who runs on instinct, but some of the closest people in my life will tell you that I have one of the best gut instincts that they've ever seen in their life. And so I just, I really tuned into that and I really listened to it. And my first offerings in the way I was doing things weren't the best, but

Within a year, I was like, okay, we have to change this. need to be charging more. need to be doing this. I need to get out of the mindset of exchanging time and more into the mindset of like, what is the problem you're solving worth to somebody, right? Like

when they're losing a week to their life of heavy bleeding or they can't leave their house because they're afraid they're going to crap their pants because they're having so much diarrhea, right? So what is that worth to people? And so I had to restructure a lot of those things. And my boyfriend actually has an MBA background and he's really, really incredible at what he does. And so he really helped me organize those things and figure that stuff out. But I do think public enemy number one of business ownership is trying to be too perfect and overthinking. Like you just have to do it messy because if you...

If you don't do it messy, you're not going to do it. Just start.

Shauna Lynn Simon (19:08.174)

There are so many things there that I want to dive into. Oh my gosh. Okay. But we are going to do all of that when we come back from this short break.

Alright, welcome back to the Real Women Real Business Podcast. And I am joined by Danielle Kepics. we just were talking about a little bit about starting messy. But in there, she talked about trusting your gut. She talked about pricing for value of what it's worth as opposed to trading time for money.

And then of course, just talked about just not waiting for things to be absolutely perfect to get them out there. So many good things in all of those. I almost don't even know where to start. I think the gut is a big one though, that I think we spend so much time and I just actually did a podcast episode on this. want to say it was last week's episode. It might have been two weeks ago where I was talking about exactly that of like, I find so many women are running what I call a borrowed business where we see the gurus out there. They're loud.

They're saying things with confidence and we're like, well, that must be right. I should do exactly what they do. Cause they say that if I do exactly what they're doing, I'm going to get the exact results that they've had. listen, here I am on a podcast telling you how to run your business. So I get it. Like, obviously you want to listen to the experts, but you have to take it as inspiration. have to learn how to apply it to your business and you've got to do those gut checks. Because if you are being told to do something and it doesn't feel right.

Shauna Lynn Simon (21:21.112)

There's something to listen to there. So you've got to check in with your gut and ask yourself, does this align with the business that I'm building, with the values that I have, with who I want to be in the direction I want to go in? Because sometimes we get so caught up in just sort of coasting along and letting the tides take us wherever they take us, as opposed to taking a moment and saying, you know what, actually, I'm going to swim upstream a little bit. It's going be a little harder, but I know that's the direction I actually want to go in.

That's something that I think is so huge, just listening to your gut. And I've dealt with times in my life where I have doubted my gut and every time, like in high school, I'm like, my gut was telling me, you like you feel it, but it's easy sometimes to feel like we're giving up the decisions to someone else, to the latest guru, to the most confident person in the room, the loudest person in the room. And again,

I think it's always important to be learning from someone else and seeing how other people are doing things. But now it's up to you to apply that in your business. Only you know your business the way that you do. So I absolutely love, love, love that you said that. But I, what I really want to dig into, I want to talk some money because I love talking money because this is a conversation I have constantly with my clients, especially like a lot of who I'm working with are creative entrepreneurs and

So interior designers, home stagers, photographers, real estate agents are a big audience of ours as well. so real estate agents are a great example of someone who trades for value for the most part. You're making commission. You're not going by how many hours did I actually spend? You're going on, what is this worth? What is the overall value of what I'm providing here? But most interior designers are constantly trading time for money. So they're looking at a project saying, okay, that's going to be 10 hours. I'm going to charge.

$150, $200 an hour, whatever that looks like. And then they come, they spit out a number for it. But when you look at what the client actually got from you, what if you didn't base it on hours? Like I used to be a bartender way back in the day, all through university, all through my first career, all through launching this business or my first business, I should say, I was a bartender. And I'll tell you what I loved about being a bartender. There's a lot of controversy about the tipping system. And don't get me wrong. I do feel as though our tipping has gotten a little bit out of control.

Shauna Lynn Simon (23:33.676)

to the point where like not everything needs a tip, but the hospitality industry was actually built on this. And it meant that we did not make a living wage as our actual base salary. Now that has changed a lot in years. I'll be honest, not entirely certain. I agree with it because I felt like I liked being paid for my performance. I liked being paid based on the quality of the experience that I gave to people. And what I loved about it was I could work a four hour shift and make the same amount of money some people made in eight hours.

because I controlled how much money I brought in. I controlled how much value they felt they got out of it. And I controlled what that percentage essentially was at the end of the day. And I made bank on it. And I loved the idea. So when I first had staff, I paid them a commission. They had a base salary as well, but I also paid them a commission and it gave them an incentive of like, listen, you're going to make a percentage on this project. I was running a home staging business. They get a percentage of the project. We had based it on obviously like a certain number of hours that were expected.

But it meant if they worked more efficiently, they made more money per hour. They could work the same number of hours or less hours or more hours, and they're making the same amount of money. So wouldn't that be an incentive to work more efficiently? So my clients will say sometimes, I found a more efficient way to do things. So now it's only taking me six hours to do what used to take me 10 hours. So does that mean you need to take a pay cut? Heck no. So when we price on value as opposed to hourly rate, there's so much more opportunity for both sides. So let's go back to that decision that you made.

Because I liked how you also phrased it like, what is it worth to someone? What are they getting out of it? So how did you make that shift?

Danielle Kepics (25:10.072)

Well, I looked at the industry around me was part of it and not that I was copying other people, but I know the service that I provide and I know that I'm in the top 5 % of what I do because I have worked with some pretty big names in the business and I'm like, I do a better job. Cool. Good to know. And I don't say that from a place of ego, but also working with me is working with five practitioners in one.

So I'll be damned if I'm not going to charge for it. So anyways, I looked at what I was charging and this and that, and I was like, you know, I'm still charging on this. Like I'm like thinking of it as a per visit conventional medicine model. Like, and you know, I was giving people nine months to use three appointments and people were extending it and they were taking advantage of it in the way it was written legally. I was getting really mad that people weren't paying me any money, but I was still having to see them. And so straight up that's, that's a problem for me. And you know, that doesn't

Shauna Lynn Simon (26:04.718)

is a clue though that is a really big clue when you start feeling resentful

Danielle Kepics (26:08.366)

Something's got to change and that's not fair to me and that's not fair to the person who's sitting across from me. I mean, on the other side of the screen, I see everybody virtually, right? And so I was like, I deserve to be paid better for the service that I'm providing. I'm going to go to a six month model instead of a three session model so that you have, can write it in legally, right? I can't, my lawyer does. You have to use these appointments within six months. you don't, tough crap. Being adult. I'm not your mommy. Like.

Shauna Lynn Simon (26:34.754)

gone. Yeah.

Danielle Kepics (26:37.708)

You know, I'm a very tough love practitioner. Like if you don't, you need to come ready to do the work with me. You can't, you're not going to pay me money and get results. Like you have to pay me money and you have to do the work. listen, I know it's rude, like go speak to a manager about it. And I, I am not the manager. So it's yeah, I get it. It sucks. Y'all like I'm that I don't make the rules. So that was a big part of my decision. And also I wanted to work with less people. And so I have a maximum.

Shauna Lynn Simon (26:52.334)

It's called adulting, yeah.

Shauna Lynn Simon (26:58.506)

Yeah.

Danielle Kepics (27:06.528)

My ceiling for one-on-ones is 30 people at a time. That's it.

Shauna Lynn Simon (27:11.126)

And that's a lot too. that's impressive.

Danielle Kepics (27:14.482)

And I don't think I've actually ever seen it. I think the highest I've seen is around 20, you know, just because of the way that people filter in and out and the rate that I see people and things like that. So, you know, that's not for my HRT business. That's more for like the, the coaching and more of the holistic integrative health type of stuff, which is really, it's really intensive. Like people come with a lot of really big feelings. Sometimes they come with a lot of really big issues and big problems. And, you know, I was working on finishing up notes this morning and you know,

I spend 45 minutes after a visit with people linking podcast episodes, linking books, describing, like giving them a whole write-up about their blood work results. Like it's so above and beyond what I do on is even with the current price to work with me for six months is $41.99. That includes your lab testing and your, and a stool test, even at what I charge, I would argue that I over deliver, you know? So I was feeling too chaotic and I was like, this has to stop. And if I want that to, got to charge more money. And it was scary. Like I get it. They're like,

Oh, like telling people to give you $4,000 for like, you know, and the pressure is on you to fix that problem too, right? Because in an insurance based model and to your point with like the bartending of like, I love the control being in my hands. Like I was, I was a pitcher growing up and I was like, give me the ball, give me the ball, bases loaded, two outs, like give me the ball, give me the ball, put me up to bat. I want to be in control.

And that doesn't come from a place of like, I hired someone in my business of one month into full-time business. It's not about having control. It's because I know what I can do and I have so much confidence. I don't, I've never had a confidence problem. And I think that that goes a very long way in business. And it's also a very fine line between being an egotistical maniac and showing people that like, I'm the right person for this job. That's very important that you get that message and that alignment over to a person. And it also is how you deliver that is a little bit different based on whoever's sitting in front of you. Right?

talk about like my psychology background and reading people and getting to know people on a 30 minute console call of how I have to deliver and present my services to that person to get them to buy into me, right? And a lot of these people have been following me for some time and they have, you know, exposure or referrals and things like that. But yeah, I mean, it's scary. I get it. But like, listen, you have to charge your worth. you can't like Starbucks doesn't groan about raising their prices. Neither should you.

Shauna Lynn Simon (29:29.398)

Yeah, and I mean, there's, you other people are getting paid, other people are getting value. there's, so like I use my home stagers as an example, because there are a ton of you guys in the audience and I know who you are and I know you're listening to this. But one of the big things is, you know, we'll, I'll often hear stages say like, well,

You know, the real estate agent, like they're only making so much commission, like the house is only worth this much. Like none of that changes your value. So stop making that dictate it. Like when you come at this with the confidence of this is what I am worth, who's arguing with you, right? Like who's there, who's going to tell you that you're not worth that? You, that is the problem. Like you need to have that conversation with yourself. Maybe you're therapist or.

Danielle Kepics (30:10.218)

And maybe you're a therapist.

Shauna Lynn Simon (30:13.368)

I mean, go check out, think it was episode, gosh, I don't remember 90 something with Rusty Osborne, my mindset coach. And I sent all of my one-on-one clients to Rusty. Actually all of my group coach and one-on-one clients get a session with Rusty and he helps to remove some of those mental blocks because sometimes it's where you're, we're literally getting in our own way on these things. But what you're saying Danielle is about you, how you've got that confidence. And so I know some people are probably listening to this and saying, but I don't have that confidence.

But that's what that is what you need. And if you don't have it, borrow it. Who believes in you? Yep. And listen to that voice in your head instead of your own voice, instead of the naysayer. Like we all have that client that we know if we raise our prices, they are going to raise an absolute fit. Like, you know that voice.

Danielle Kepics (31:00.014)

Best of luck. Have a nice day.

Shauna Lynn Simon (31:03.118)

Have a nice day. I will tell you, like I have raised my prices significantly over the last few years because I moved to a group coaching model. And so now if I'm, and I dedicate a lot of time and energy and effort into that group coaching program to the members that are in it. And that is my core focus. So if you are determined that you would prefer to work with me one-on-one, I am more than happy to do it, but my time comes at a premium and similar to you. tend to over-deliver. got a ton of things that I'm giving to them.

They're getting pretty much unlimited access to me throughout the month via Voxer or email support. Like I literally chat with most of my one-on-one clients every day, but that's why I only take on a couple of them at a time. And everyone's well, yeah, I'm going to do a proposal up for someone and they're going to come back and they're going to push back a little bit. Like, Ooh, I can't afford that. That is a them problem. I'm sorry to hear that your budget won't allow us to work together, but if they're trying to compare me to another coach and saying, so-and-so charges this much, good for them. Good for them.

I can also point you to 16 other people who charge a heck of a more than I do. I know my worth. know the results that you're going to get. And especially with my one-on-one clients, they're really customized and you're giving real results to these women that what is our work to you? mean, six months.

Danielle Kepics (32:16.638)

Here's the thing. So what is it worth to you if you've had years of issues, you're debilitated from your period, you feel like offing yourself during your luteal phase, your PMS time, you're crapping your pants on your runs, you only poop twice a week, you're so bloated that you feel like you're pregnant. And what is it worth to you to have 50 % reduction of those symptoms in 30 to 60 days? Because that's what I do for people. What is it worth to you to have years or decades of those issues gone in six months?

What is that worth? Because like I am of the mindset that like, if you don't have your health, you don't have everything. The person who doesn't care about their health and then has a health problem, that's the only problem that they have then. And I just finished up with a girl the other day who literally couldn't, would not get a gym membership because she was afraid of having diarrhea and she was always looking at, she literally was having fecal incontinence. She's 30 years old.

Shauna Lynn Simon (33:10.798)

Danielle Kepics (33:12.066)

Three to five years, I think it was, that she was living with this. She saw a GI doctor, she saw her PCP, no one did anything for her. They were like, we don't know, bye bye.

Shauna Lynn Simon (33:20.206)

And I think that's just it. think people feel so lost when they can't get the answers and they don't, and yeah, they kind of just get bounced around from one person to the next and no one's giving them any good news or anything. mean, I'm a runner and I will tell you that if there is one thing that us women talk about on our runs, it is our cycle and our poop. Those are probably the biggest conversation that we have because both of those impact what kind of run I'm going to have that day. And we have literally had women where they're like, I can't make today's run.

Danielle Kepics (33:48.482)

That shouldn't happen. Yeah. That's not normal. Sorry. I know I just took this in like a health direction, like that's the thing. So like before, when we were talking about like the disconnect that we have from ourselves and our bodies and our wants and our needs and that gut instinct from such young age where, I talked about this on another podcast the other day, you get three passes a semester to go to the bathroom as a third grader. So even at that low of a level where it's like, I have to disconnect myself from my body.

Shauna Lynn Simon (33:51.64)

No!

Danielle Kepics (34:17.505)

because I'm not allowed to pee. How ridiculous is that? And so it's the same thing, whether it's tuning into that resentment or tuning into the effort you want to put in or the job you want to leave. Like that is one of the most important facets, in my opinion, of leading a healthy life is like in alignment, not having that incongruence in your life. It's so important. So I know I just took that in like six different.

Shauna Lynn Simon (34:40.78)

No, but I think it's so true. think that women especially, like we haven't been taught nearly enough about our bodies and how they actually function. And so for us to be trying to regulate them is a huge challenge. mean, most of my friends that are similar in age to me, like we're all dealing with perimenopause and some are even in full menopause at this time. And I felt completely unprepared for it if I'm being honest. I feel like there are better conversations that are now being had. think that social media for

all the things that you might hate about it. There are some things that it does bring a voice to things. does, the algorithm does work sometimes if there's things you want to hear about, it's going to keep feeding you those things, which is great. But it feels like my mom's generation, all we knew about menopause was that you get a little moody and some hot flashes. That was about all that I heard them talk about. There are hundreds of symptoms. Like there are so many other things. And the conversation I'm constantly having with my friends is it's like, we're playing this game. Is it?

something else or is it perimenopause? everything gets chalked up to perimenopause. And if you look it up, if I do a Google search and say like, this a symptom of perimenopause? Guess what? The answer every time is yes.

Danielle Kepics (35:42.912)

question to ask actually.

Danielle Kepics (35:54.19)

It's a really important health point because that's why you have to have a good practitioner who understands how to work other stuff up. And then you have the other end of people who are like perimenopause is a fad run from anyone who uses that word. I'm like, wow, your doctor clearly skipped physiology class. So cool, good to know. And hasn't read a research paper in 20 years.

Shauna Lynn Simon (36:11.918)

please tell that to my night sweats because like those feel pretty real at the time. Let me tell you. In any case. Okay. So getting back to, okay, I want go back to some of the, sorry, didn't mean to, I'm so sorry. No, no, I am not complaining about this. Neither are, neither are the women listening to this, I'm sure. But, um, so we're talking to, okay, so we've already covered about charging your worth and really thinking about the value of what it is that you bring, having the confidence, trusting your gut in all of those things.

And so, because one of the things that that does is when, soon as we stop trading time for money, all of a sudden our capacity increases. Like we can actually, right? Like we don't have to take on as many people to make the same amount of money, which means that we can deliver better quality to each of those people. And don't each of those people deserve that? And therefore they're going to pay for it. Like there is this cycle that comes down to it. And ultimately it makes it more sustainable for you. We can't scale you. Like there's only so much scalability to that.

We need to be able to build a more sustainable business. What's a boundary or a system that you've put in place that helps to protect your energy?

Danielle Kepics (37:17.996)

love talking about boundaries. No is a complete sentence, Yes. No is a complete sentence. This is such an important one. And I feel like for entrepreneurs, it can be really easy to work 24/7. listen, we all know that it ebbs and flows. There will be periods where you have to put in some time on the weekend and things like this. A really hard boundary for me is, for example, so I do messaging with my clients on Tuesday so they can message me all week. respond basically all day on Tuesday. spend

in front of my computer, talking to them, messaging them. I see them once a month. really you're having a lot of, as a practitioner, you're having a lot of touch points with me. So I don't look at those messages until Tuesday. If it's an, I don't care. I don't, I care so much that I don't care. And I've actually had clients when I'm signing them on say, I'm so glad that you told me that because I work with a lot of overachievers, a lot of former people pleasers. And so they, oh Oh my God, am I bothering you? no, you're not.

A lot of the times I'll start on Monday and I'll set the timer to send the first message Tuesday morning. I personally like that. That's why I do it. Not because I feel like I need to, because I like my mornings. I don't see people in the mornings. You know why? I don't want to. I don't want to. I see, I see people from 1 PM to 5 PM, Tuesday through Friday. If you can't fit your appointment in there, I don't know what to tell you. And I don't say that to be a, know what I say that because

That's important to me and that helps me show up the best that I can to the people that I'm serving. And it's a net gain for both of us. So I do my best not to work on the weekends. I was doing some notes yesterday, like just for maybe about an hour. But you know, I mean, most of my mornings, honestly, like I spend an hour and a half at the gym, whether I'm just doing mobility or what, whatever, just like doing my, doing my workout, whatever, like that's my time. So that's a hard boundary for me too. Like I, my exercise gets done. My, you know,

There's so many that I could talk about, I think the biggest ones are really holding off on that messaging because I talked to a lot of practitioners who say that that's what they're going to do. They're responding to people at 9 PM and then people see that they're responding at 9 PM because it says red at 9 PM. And so then people think that they're entitled to a response at that time. And it's like, would your doctor's office ever? No, ma'am. No ma'am. So I'm not either five o'clock.

Danielle Kepics (39:34.924)

I mean, and listen, like there are days where like sometimes I have an appointment at like whatever time. So I'm messaging at like six or seven o'clock at night to finish things up because I do want to like give the people the things that they need. I'm not just going to be like tough crap. Like that's not, that's not good business ownership either, but only responding to messages and looking at them on Tuesdays. And, you know, after six o'clock, seven o'clock, I don't do work probably closer to six.

Like it just, it's so, so, so important. You can ask a lot of people, like I'm, you can ask my boyfriend. I'm in bed by nine o'clock. yeah. Nothing is an emergency.

Shauna Lynn Simon (40:07.758)

You're a late owl compared to me.

Shauna Lynn Simon (40:12.622)

That is exactly, as you're talking, that was the thing that I keep coming back to is we tend to identify what we consider like a fire. It's an emergency, it's urgent, and we tend to prioritize those sometimes. at the end of the day, if we step back, is it really an emergency? of my clients, she's been on the show actually twice, Sonia Barney, with Sonia Barney Designs, and she's also the founder of Kaivari, who's also one of the sponsors of this podcast. And one of the episodes that she was on, can't remember which one it was, but she was saying how there's no such thing as a design emergency.

Like she's an interior designer. There's no such thing as interior design emergency. There is nothing that cannot wait. like if you've done your job properly as well. Like that's the other thing too. If you're doing your job, there's nothing that should be an emergency. And don't get me wrong. I think I've mentioned like my one-on-one clients, get fairly unlimited access to me. So one of the options is Voxer, which is an audio app for anyone who's not familiar with it. It's one of my favorite ways to communicate because it feels like you're having a conversation.

Danielle Kepics (40:44.866)

No

Shauna Lynn Simon (41:10.124)

What I love about it is that it's not in real time. So I can speak, can, cause I communicate so much better by speaking as opposed to trying to type out my thoughts, but I don't have to feel like I am on demand at the time they are messaging me. So my clients know you can send me a Voxer any time that you want to send it. And I will look at it usually during business hours, Monday through Friday. And I offer them a 24 hour response time for 24 business hours.

within like one business day, essentially, they will get a response. Now, some of my clients will message me on the weekend. Let me tell you, there are days where I'm working on the weekend. like, I feel like listening to see what they have to say. And I'll listen to them and they know this. I might listen to it and I might send back a quick message saying, you'll hear from me on Monday. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Other times I don't send back a message at all. And other times I'll actually respond with something thoughtful for them. That's my choice. And if I don't want to listen to that message and it's not because

I don't like that client or they did something to annoy me. And it never has anything to do with that. It has to do with me managing my own time and energy. And where is my mental space? Like if I'm not going to show up best for them on a Sunday night, I am not responding to their Voxer or message on a Sunday night because that's not what's best for them. So these boundaries that we put in place are not selfish. They are to protect the quality of what we are giving everybody around us.

And I think that when we start reframing it that way and thinking about a boundary is something that actually helps other people. It's the process that we put in place that protects other people. Our pricing strategy helps us to protect other people. Do all those things benefit us as well? Well, they better. Yeah. But we're putting them in place because they benefit other people. So I love that. I know it's hard to pick on like what's one boundary that you have. Cause I say the same thing. I've got so many, you know.

Danielle Kepics (43:00.024)

So one of the best compliments I received, have a client who's a mental health therapist. She's a really, really incredible therapist. to me, she's like, I knew when I was signing up for you to work with you that I was paying for you to take care of yourself, to have good boundaries.

because you don't work with a ton of people to show up in a way that I need you to show up for me. And that is one of the most amazing compliments I've ever gotten, especially given the source that it came from. And I think that if you are working with someone, a business owner who has crap boundaries, I wouldn't do it. I personally would not do it. Like I want to see someone who is taking care of themselves because you are getting a better service when you pay a higher premium. listen, I get it. Like I hear people just screaming the word privilege at me right now.

And I just, that's a noise I hear in my head when I hear that word. Anyway, you know, no one's given me anything in my life, by the way, I have screamed and clawed for everything. Like just a little bit of background. Like not only did I not have a boyfriend to fall back on, but I don't talk to my father and my mom died when I was 16. So don't come at me with your privilege conversations. So I just, I just feel like that's important when you have these conversations, but like it would be such a red flag for me, whether it's a health practitioner, business coach.

that if they are, if they have poorest boundaries, because that's the technical term for that red flag. not, don't want to work with you. I don't want to work with you in any capacity and I don't care what the service you're providing me with us. And especially if it's about my health, especially if it's about my health.

Shauna Lynn Simon (44:22.798)

If I'm helping my clients to end their days earlier, to delegate things to other people, and then I'm not practicing any of these things myself. If I'm not practicing the boundaries, again, like boundaries are a choice and there are times where you can make exceptions to them, but there are some pretty hard and steady boundaries that I really don't make exceptions on. And every once in a while, sure.

You can make an exception, but that is your choice, not because someone else demands it. And I agree. If someone's not respecting your boundaries, chances are they don't have boundaries themselves and they're going to continue to push you. Yeah. It's going to be an endless cycle. You're not going to be happy. They're not going to be happy. It's not the right fit. Move on. Find someone who's a better fit. Bye bye. Yeah, exactly. Bye bye. No is a complete sentence. And I actually just had,

My accountability partner the other day actually just fired a client before that client even started, but red flags were popping up all over the place. She kept going back to like, this is my process. This is the boundaries. And the woman was just completely disregarding all of that, challenging her pricing model, everything. She was like, I think like it would be a good job. And she could really refer me to other people. And I think that she might trash talk me if I back out now. like, it sounds like to me, she's going to trash talk you at some point in this relationship anyway.

better to have her do it at the very start. And so she very politely said, here's your money back. I'm not interested in working with you. I don't think it's the right fit. It was a very polite message. And the woman surprisingly responded with, thanks for letting me know. And she moved on. So it is a hard thing. Sometimes we think that they're not going to live without us. They'll be fine. They'll find someone else that is a better fit for them. yeah. Okay. So what's the most honest advice that you would give someone listening to this,

who's considering leaving that stable job that maybe feels a little guilty or scared. I think a lot of women listening, even if they've already ventured into entrepreneurship, they might still be hanging on to what I call our security blanket of some sort. And that could be, it could be another job. It could be perhaps a significant other partner who we want to leave, but aren't for financial reasons. And so what's the most honest advice you give to someone who's like considering this, but feeling guilty and scared?

Danielle Kepics (46:35.566)

So I have two things. The first one is that security will never make you happy. If you are worried about feeling secure financially or emotionally, if you're constantly worried about that, you're never going to get there anyway. The second part of this is a little bit more practical. And so I mentioned that when I made the decision that I was going to leave full time, I started saving money. And so I would say that you don't have to go full steam ahead all at once. Like you can start it as a side gig and you can save money and you can make that a more palatable.

transition as opposed to just like, I'm giving my two weeks now and I have no money, right? Like there's a smart way to do things. And you know, I am someone who has always wanted agency over everything in my life. Like put me in coach, give me the ball. And business ownership is not for everybody. And if you are not someone who, you know, like I have a pretty high risk investment portfolio too. And I'm not saying you have to be a wingsuit jumper or like jumping out of planes, but there has to be a little bit of like risk tolerance.

And I would also say that doing a really honest assessment of are you cut out for this? And is this actually what you want or is it just what the internet is screaming at you to do? Right. I think there's a lot of noise out there now that like, if you're not a business owner, you're a worthless human. And I think that that's really harmful. And so I would say slow and steady, save that money. Security's never going to give you happiness. So just jump at some point. You have to make that jump. Right. That is my broad advice.

Shauna Lynn Simon (48:00.034)

You can start small. don't have to jump in with both feet right away. can start small. you said, and I liked that. mean, like I said, bartending is how I was able to start my first business, how I was able to buy my first house. mean, now my full-time business was at one point a side gig, just like everybody else's. And so allow yourself to move into it when the time feels right. But at some point you got to let go and just.

Danielle Kepics (48:23.466)

It won't be perfect. It's never going to be perfect. Just you have to just start. You literally

Shauna Lynn Simon (48:28.142)

There's Water's gonna be cold when you jump in, let me tell you. The water's gonna be cold at first. There's always a shock to the system.

Danielle Kepics (48:33.536)

It's gonna be, but you can't keep saying yourself, well, I'll do it when I'll do it. Well, you're never gonna do it. If you keep saying, I'm gonna do it when, I have to have all of the, and listen, there are a couple of things that I would say are important to have in place, right? Like I run a health related business. Like I probably need a health system, like an EHR system. Like that'd be kind of stupid, right? But I think a lot of people feel like they need all of these expensive bells and whistles to start out with. And you really don't.

Shauna Lynn Simon (48:38.584)

No.

Danielle Kepics (49:00.014)

Like a website isn't nice to have, guess what? You can build a free one or one for like, you know, $39 a year for the first, like there's so many ways that you can, you know, step back and ask yourself, do I actually need this? Or is someone, the vast society just screaming that I need it? Right. And also how can I do it cheaper? I think that's such a good question. Like. Yeah.

Shauna Lynn Simon (49:19.736)

challenge the status quo.

How can you do things cheaper? So earlier though, in our conversation, we did talk about a couple of things you mentioned. We didn't allow ourselves to go too far down the health path, but you did mention to me before we started this interview that you have something for about HRT. I believe it was some myths about HRT. And I think that's a hot topic for a lot of the women listening to this. So we would absolutely love to get our hands on that for our audience. So if you could let us know, how do we find that? And if someone wants to connect with you, what's the best way for them to connect with you?

Danielle Kepics (49:49.058)

Yeah. So I have a, it's free. All of these resources are free. So I have an HRT myth guide, just about, know, the most common things like, I had cancer or, I have a clotting disease and I can't take HRT. That's a lie. There are of course caveats to that. I always say every good practitioner should say it depends. So I have a ebook on HRT myths. have a free perimenopause quiz if you're like, cause guess what? Perimenopause starts at 35 guys. 35. It can, that's not every person. I had someone drop in my DMs like

I'm 34 and I'm not having symptoms yet. The what about me as I'm on the internet is so real. I'm not talking to you girl. Okay, I get it. Not everything applies to you. I also have, I didn't talk to you about this beforehand, but for my Unconventional Collaborative business, I have a build-your-business freebie. I that might be. I just thought about it because I talk about a lot of the ways how you can build-your-business for low cost and LLCs and logistical stuff like that.

Shauna Lynn Simon (50:43.17)

Amazing.

Danielle Kepics (50:44.162)

So I'll send you links for all of that stuff and all of those are, I mean, really, really, again, I over deliver like the build-your-business freebie is 50 fricking pages. like it's ridiculous.

Shauna Lynn Simon (50:53.196)

Oh my goodness. It also says like, if you're willing to give this stuff for free, imagine what you get when you pay her money. Like that is saying something right there. So we'll make sure to have all of these links in the show notes. And in the meantime, yeah, sorry, go ahead.

Danielle Kepics (51:11.244)

I just going to say, I hang out mostly on Instagram. So @danielle.kepics is the easiest, my main Instagram account. And I have a podcast. It's really health centric. I always have really, really amazing guests on there. It's called Strong and Unfiltered just like me.

Shauna Lynn Simon (51:26.078)

Yeah, love it. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Danielle, I feel like we could have talked for hours. were so many different directions we could have taken this conversation. But I think we pulled out the hottest insights that I possibly could from you for our audience. thank you so much for joining me.

Danielle Kepics (51:40.394)

Yeah, thank you so much. This was really, really great.

Shauna Lynn Simon (51:42.966)

I agree, definitely. listen, if you're listening to this and this episode has been resonating with you, be sure to tune in again next week. Allow us to continue to be a part of your entrepreneurial journey. We so appreciate being a part of it. And don't forget to subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast. Leave us a review. It really, really does help the algorithm. Thank you to everyone who has left us reviews recently. We so appreciate it. But as always, the best way that you can show your support, not only for this podcast, but for your fellow women entrepreneurs is

Who do you know who needs to hear this episode today? Please share this episode with them. They will thank you for it. And I know we'll both appreciate it as well. Until next time, everyone, keep thriving.